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  1. #11
    Senior Member Drezoryx's Avatar
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    @op what you mention as pure elements of Buddhism are in fact the foundation of all religions. but they have been run over so much that its rituals ethics metaphysics and eschatology which people bother about as popular tea time conversation solely (w.r.t. religion). Not that these don't matter they play a big role in keeping the collective head of the society cool but real substance of every religion is forgotten underneath all that pop talk.

    The real deal is the personal experience and like Happyman said "There's no way to describe the result, the same way you cannot describe the colour yellow to somebody who hasn't seen it. " and when you realize this, how much can you really blame people for forgetting the substance ever? After all poptalk must go on.

    This is a personal/human experience and seekers will keep inheriting/discovering this on and on irrespective of religious teachings getting muddled or even existing.
    Type 8 sx/sp/so
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  2. #12
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    "Pure" anything doesn't survive very long. Especially anything socially related; and yes, religion is socially influenced. Most of the 'higher laws' of religions are just cultural taboos written down sadly. Oh well.

    In any case, the Buddhism one isn't really that much different; there's core concepts it's founded upon, but those can be misinterpreted, misunderstood, or just not known in the first place.

    One of the easiest ones to mess up in Buddhism is the whole eradication of cravings; wanting to better oneself is still a craving, yet one that should be followed anyway. Wanting to gain enlightenment or wisdom, to learn, to understand, all forms of cravings, and externally based ones at that.

    To have no desires, is to become less than human. So many people misinterpret the concept behind it, be it the assumption that yeu're supposed to live in poverty (not really, though that did occur, it was more a personal choice as I understand it), or to refuse anything better than yeu have. That's really not the premise, so much as it is the understanding that through want, further want is gained; one never sates 'want'. If yeu get whot yeu wanted, a new want shall fill in the blank. Even Van Halen of all people pointed this out "The more things you get, the more you want; just trade in one for another". This follows loosely upon the concept, but doesn't really take it to the religious level as such. The idea, anyway, is to accept that and give up on wasting time and effort on fleeting things, such as material stuff, and focus on the things that endure, such as wisdom, as yeu can keep accumulating more wisdom, whereas money has no intrinsic value but whot yeu do with it so having twice as much 'stuff' really doesn't make yeu twice as happy, but wisdom very well may provide such.

    Anyways, I don't know a ton about Buddhism sadly, and am a bit curious about it, but the same rule applies to all things... most people are ignorant of whot they supposedly 'follow'. They may follow the motions, but rarely do they actually understand.

    As I know so few Buddhists, it's rather difficult to get any real information on it, as even if yeu know one or two, that's not enough to truly understand, only to give a brief glimpse.

    Oh well, one more thing I want I suppose, which I may or may not achieve. Does it really matter? I suppose not, I'll just want more once I got that understanding anyway, now wouldn't I? ^.~

  3. #13
    Sniffles
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    I'll take the remark about Iran being a Buddhist country as an obvious joke. Unless you're referring to its spread during the Hellenistic era.

    Quote Originally Posted by Happyman View Post
    Hrm... Zen?
    Actually I believe Theravada Buddhism is considered closer to Buddha's original teachings.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Amen, brutha. It's turning social and superficial.

    It's all backwards.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  5. #15
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curzon View Post
    No soul.
    Didn't Buddha himself claim that people who failed to achieve Nirvana would be reincarnated? How would that be theoretically possible without a "soul"?

  6. #16
    Riva
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    The core of buddhism is based on the belief (empirical actually) that no one has a soul.

    Buddhist teachings = Anattma (no soul)

    Since there is no soul there is no I no self. there is no permanent self.

    ^ this we know theoretically.

    (Therefore we as people change all the time.
    The person who is typing this post is not be the same person who ends it.)

    We begin to realize that (No soul) empirically by practicing (meditation called Vipassana / Observation meditation).

    Then we slowly begin to realize that what we hold on to as I is nothing but a temporary thing. Which is Buddhist enlightenment.

    Sounds boring I know. lolz.


    I'll get back to you on the Reincarnation part. Will take a bit too long to type.

  7. #17
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Didn't Buddha himself claim that people who failed to achieve Nirvana would be reincarnated? How would that be theoretically possible without a "soul"?
    Reincarnation in Hinduism
    A permanent non tangible substance (Soul) that travels from one life to another (one body to another) until it attains enlightenment. (note that Hindu enlightenment is different from Buddhist enlightenment).

    Reincarnation in Buddhism
    Vinyana (non permanent) travels from one body to another until / or if ever it attain Nirvana.

    What is Vinyana?
    I'll have to use a metaphor because it is really hard to describe.

    If
    if The body you have is a machine.
    if The five aggregates Skandha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia are self charges.
    then The Vinyana is like the electricity that is created by the charges.

    The machine could/ would someday die.
    The Charges would therefore die.
    But the electricity that is created by the charges (vinyana) would travel to another machine (reincarnation in Buddhism).

  8. #18
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyman View Post
    PS Buddhist in Iran - biggest respect. Is it as hard as I think it is or is it just a stupid stereotype about Iran?
    *makes a mental note to play more and more pranks on Happyman*

  9. #19
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curzon View Post
    Reincarnation in Hinduism
    A permanent non tangible substance (Soul) that travels from one life to another (one body to another) until it attains enlightenment. (note that Hindu enlightenment is different from Buddhist enlightenment).

    Reincarnation in Buddhism
    Vinyana (non permanent) travels from one body to another until / or if ever it attain Nirvana.

    What is Vinyana?
    I'll have to use a metaphor because it is really hard to describe.

    If
    if The body you have is a machine.
    if The five aggregates Skandha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia are self charges.
    then The Vinyana is like the electricity that is created by the charges.

    The machine could/ would someday die.
    The Charges would therefore die.
    But the electricity that is created by the charges (vinyana) would travel to another machine (reincarnation in Buddhism).
    Where would Karma play its role in all of this?

    This "energy" that you speak of implies that when the machine dies, this energy travels to another machine to continue the charge, like battery cells.

    Would this energy be gradually built up through different "machines", gaining higher levels of energy as it "grows", and finally reaching a collective consciousness, or self-awareness? (growing in stages from plants to animals, and beyond.)
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  10. #20
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    Where would Karma play its role in all of this?

    This "energy" that you speak of implies that when the machine dies, this energy travels to another machine to continue the charge, like battery cells.

    Would this energy be gradually built up through different "machines", gaining higher levels of energy as it "grows", and finally reaching a collective consciousness, or self-awareness? (growing in stages from plants to animals, and beyond.)
    The electricity that I told about (vinyana) is not entirely like electricity. It has data (Karma) gathering qualities.

    To the bold.
    Yes. It is karma. The more Karma (not Pin/merits) the higher the consciousness thus better quality the electricity. The power of the electricity become so strong that now it is strong enough to go to a machine which has a higher capacity (consciousness).

    So you are correct.

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