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  1. #11
    Senior Member Drezoryx's Avatar
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    ^ thats funny in itself :P
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    O:C:E:A:N :: 65:69:59:57:9

  2. #12
    it's a nuclear device antireconciler's Avatar
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    If purpose is something given by the human, then it will always appear arbitrary, because the human is finite, and so will appear the purposes she gives of herself.

    It takes a different line of argument to say that the only purpose humans can accept is that which they give. Anyone can flirt with creating arbitrary purposes and then deconstructing them. Reason should not then conclude that meaning itself is arbitrary: only that the one you have flirted with is.

    What then are your reasons for this activity? Don't use your mind to give justifications, but use your feelings. What are you feeling, and how has this motivated you. If you want to understand meaning, start with what you feel, just as slumdog suggests. Do not be too convinced by the objection that your feelings cannot reason whereas your mind can. There is some truth to this, and there is also some falsity.
    ~ a n t i r e c o n c i l e r
    What is death, dies.
    What is life, lives.

  3. #13
    Senior Member The Grand Chameleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antireconciler View Post
    If purpose is something given by the human, then it will always appear arbitrary, because the human is finite, and so will appear the purposes she gives of herself.

    It takes a different line of argument to say that the only purpose humans can accept is that which they give. Anyone can flirt with creating arbitrary purposes and then deconstructing them. Reason should not then conclude that meaning itself is arbitrary: only that the one you have flirted with is.

    What then are your reasons for this activity? Don't use your mind to give justifications, but use your feelings. What are you feeling, and how has this motivated you. If you want to understand meaning, start with what you feel, just as slumdog suggests. Do not be too convinced by the objection that your feelings cannot reason whereas your mind can. There is some truth to this, and there is also some falsity.
    So to reason by feeling alone is merely the result of hormone and neurotransmitter action? Basically, if this "makes me feel good" then purpose is necessary? Its existence is then a safety function of sorts, ensuring the euphoria associated with that particular purpose can be localized to re-experience. Or maybe to keep the non-euphoric at bay?
    "In the game of chess, you can never let your opponent see your pieces."

  4. #14
    Senior Member The Grand Chameleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    The people who did it to sound smart came first. The teachers teach it to their students to make them sound smart, because sounding smart is important to having a good life -- or, well, it used to be.

    For me to personally attach meaning, it has to be an immediate danger.
    Quote Originally Posted by slumdogtrillionaire View Post
    the choice as a human is only happiness. everything else is nothing. it is the basis for morality discipline achievement laziness assigning meanings etc.

    egg or chicken its an infinite series of which someone starts with chicken, someone with egg. it matters not. what matters is happiness. Does thinking this make you happy or depressed?
    Safety vs Happiness, or are they one and the same?
    "In the game of chess, you can never let your opponent see your pieces."

  5. #15
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    I really, really like the OP. I think like that often. Not the hopeless part, just the alternate meanings and stream of thoughts. It feels like someone got in my head.

  6. #16
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    I really, really like the OP. I think like that often. Not the hopeless part, just the alternate meanings and stream of thoughts.
    I also love the nihilistic breakdown that's going on through the OP's mind.

    Objectively, (nihilistically,) there is no meaning behind the flashing light. It is just an event that occurs, just as our lives are prolonged events.

    Relatively, however, humans are able to ascribe value and meaning to ordinary objects as a means to process reality. Any human can attach any meaning or connotation to the blinking light--whether it has relevance to anyone else is another matter altogether. Sometimes, groups of humans can come together and collaboratively attach meanings to certain objects. Take the stop sign, for example. In many western countries, we're taught to understand what the stop sign represents, and we yield to it in traffic. If you were to take the stop sign to another country where they don't have stop signs, the stop sign would become meaningless as a stop sign, and would be a flat sheet of metal with certain colors on it in a specific pattern and nothing more.

    I suppose the ultimate question is in the face of such a bleak outlook, in that after we die and the meaning we attribute to our objects becomes lost, then what is the point of living? The answer to that is up to you.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  7. #17
    Senior Member Drezoryx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Grand Chameleon View Post
    Safety vs Happiness, or are they one and the same?
    immediate danger is a threat to happiness. to live you move to safety. quest for happiness underlays it.

    its not necessary that if something makes one feel unsafe it is actually going to intrude your happiness. It could be layers of resistance (arising from life which crushes us) which makes us afraid of even a hint (high sensitivity) of something which induces this unsafe feeling.

    But if the person is more in the "happy state" already and receptive to happiness (by some self realization - as you are currently deconstructing things, hopefully this will follow with reconstruction of meaning) the purpose of doing something or not is much clearer.

    Desire for Re experience or the re experience itself may not bring happiness in changed circumstances and when that happens then the utility of selecting the right things in life makes sense (self realization) to move forward for a fresh happiness experience.

    Assigning meaning (by yourself vs what society assigns and being clear about the difference which lies here) and being self realized about those meanings (your own nature i.e. what makes you happy) and how to select those meanings/path which make you happy matter; when one understands that, that is the key to happiness (in this world at least).

    Life is all about decisions and choices for your happiness in the present. The above explains how to make law of attraction work too.
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    O:C:E:A:N :: 65:69:59:57:9

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