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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Which is all well and good, but how would you deal with this scripture:
    That scripture must be read in context. Matthew 5 contains the beatitudes. Jesus also goes on to explain that it was said an eye for an eye, but he changes that, and that one should hate his enemies, but now he should love them.

    I think that Jesus' was reassuring the Jewish people that he had come to fulfill the prophecies of the Old Testament. "Righteousness" can be interpreted different ways in Christianity -one of the complexities of the Bible is that in the Old Testament God used people with obvious sins to serve him. The one thing all of these people had in common was their faith and love of God, not blamelessness. No one can be blameless, because everyone is human. That is why we are all equal in the eyes of God and forgiveness is a requirement.

    Most Christians agree that the ten commandments are the law that should not be broken, which Jesus sums up in the two commandments to love God above all others and to love others as one's self, as wildcat already mentioned.

    As for all men being born "evil" we all are born with certain instincts that make us selfish, even cruel. Ever seen a two year old share a favorite toy without being taught to do so?

  2. #62
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    As for all men being born "evil" we all are born with certain instincts that make us selfish, even cruel. Ever seen a two year old share a favorite toy without being taught to do so?
    Yes! I intentionally have not "taught" my child to share, just to prove to myself, and every one else around me that altruism is natural in humans. And further, that it is best to maintain that altruism by modeling it, versus attempting to force that which comes natural. He shares more than any child anyone we know has seen. Children behave as well as they are treated. I believe it cause I've seen it too many times, and the research backs it up.
    For kids, altruism comes naturally, psychologist says | Stanford StoryBank
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    Yes! I intentionally have not taught my child to share, just to prove to myself and every one else around me that altruism is natural in humans. He shares more than any child anyone we know has seen. Children behave as well as they are treated.
    For kids, altruism comes naturally, psychologist says | Stanford StoryBank
    He was still taught it by example by watching you, his father, and other family members.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    He was still taught it by example by watching you, his father, and other family members.
    From the article I linked to:
    "There is very little evidence in any of these cases that children's altruism is created by parents or any other form of socialization,"
    From what I can tell, he simply absorbed what we did in our family, as all children do. But the behaviors were already instinctual. His observations of our behavior just reinforced that which was already natural, beyond the infancy and baby stage. And therein lies the true instinct of a young human, which is far from evil. The natural instinct of a human is pro-social, not anti-social. Very young children do what they see as a means of survival.

    It blows me completely away that anyone could assert that children are "evil" for expressing their needs and curiosity, their most natural instincts, and the only way they have to learn about the world around them. It sickens me that some adults believe that young children are "evil" for protesting when they are being hurt or forced not to do the very few things that they are capable of(such as reaching out to touch a watch). I'm even more sickened by the thought that anyone would view a child's instinctively pro-social behavior as evil and then use that as justification for mistreating the child in the name of God.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  5. #65
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    With regards to the original post, you might want to look to history for your answer, rather theology.

    When the early church was first expanding, there was a clash between the church-fathers. Namely between Jews and Gentiles. Some Christians believed that they were mandated to follow the Mosic law, because it was given to them by God. However, this would make Christianity a hard sell to the non-jewish peoples, who probably wouldn't be too keen on following Jewish religious law.

    Eventually, those who wanted to make a less "jewish" Church won out. The Saabath is moved to the sunday, the celebration of Christ's birthday in late December, and Jewish dietary and cultural restrictions are removed. All of these moves were made to make the Church more appealing to non-Jews. Some scholars even believe that the story of the Virgin birth was put in to appeal to a more Greco-Roman sensiblity.

    So basically, the Church(and Christianity in general) becomes less and less Jewish over time because more and more non-Jews either convert to it or enter its clerical ranks.

  6. #66
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lane777 View Post
    Genesis 8:19-21 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every bird, everything that moves on the earth, went out by families from the ark. And when the LORD smelled the pleasing aroma, the LORD said in his heart, "I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of mans heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done."

    Any good that comes from man is not due to instinct. Because of God's grace, he chooses to restrain much of the evil in man. There are many examples in The Word of God doing this very thing, possibly the most well known instance is when God placed a hedge of protection around Job to keep Satan from taking his life.

    No, I was not referring to The Golden Rule. My morals are based on the teachings of The Word. Anyways, the video below does a good job of explaining my stance.

    All Men Are Born Evil
    Is the behaviour of these lab monkeys the result of God restraining the evil in them as well?

    It's the Biblical rules you were talking about which you said atheists try to live by because they make them happier, which will be those in the category of the Golden Rule.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son of the Damned View Post
    With regards to the original post, you might want to look to history for your answer, rather theology.
    That's falsely assuming you can actually seperate the two.
    Some scholars even believe that the story of the Virgin birth was put in to appeal to a more Greco-Roman sensiblity.
    Can you name some? Cause the Virgin birth actually made Christianity more prone to criticism from pagan writers.

    So basically, the Church(and Christianity in general) becomes less and less Jewish over time because more and more non-Jews either convert to it or enter its clerical ranks.
    The story is far more complex than that really.

  8. #68
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    The distinction between laws that are kept and not is basically between universal laws and the laws given specifically to the Nation of Israel. Israel would have the universal laws too, in addition to all the ceremonial, civic and other laws.

    Judaism has extracted 613 laws for itself, and seven laws for Gentiles, called the "Noahide laws":

    Idolatry: Gen. 31:19-36;
    Blasphemy: Gen. 3:1-4,
    Murder: Gen. 4.8-10-16, 6:11, 9:6,
    Theft: Gen. 3:6, Gen. 31:19,
    Forbidden sexual relationships: Gen. 19:5-7, 20.3,
    Establishing courts of justice: Gen. 19:1-9. (The Gates of a city were where Judges sat to convene Courts of Justice),
    Eating the Limb of a Living Animal: Gen. 9.4-5

    Some of these are the same as the 10 Commandments. They are the laws necessary for a civil society. And these are pretty much what are reiterated in the New Testament, especially in Acts 15, where the question was directly raised as to which laws Gentiles were supposed to keep.

    More on this (dealing with those Christian groups who insist Christians are supposed to retain a bit more of the OT Law): The Sabbath and the Faith of Abraham

    BTW, the law forbidding meat and dairy actually says just not to "seethe a kid in his mother's milk" (Ex.23:19, 34:26, Deut.14:21) (probably a pagan practice, and this is connected with the feasts, not the Levitical kosher laws). Nothing about not eating any meat and milk together; using them in the same dishes, etc. Stuff like that was added by the rabbis, who tried to add muliple layers of "protection" from violating the literal command.

    Also, Jesus says not one jot shall pass until all be fulfilled, and the fulfillment was at his resurrection, and the destruction of the Temple that marked "the end of the age".
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    Is the behaviour of these lab monkeys the result of God restraining the evil in them as well?

    It's the Biblical rules you were talking about which you said atheists try to live by because they make them happier, which will be those in the category of the Golden Rule.
    What separates man from every other living thing is his knowledge of good and evil (as well as his eternal soul). Therefore, the bad behavior of animals cannot be called sin and we cannot say animals are evil, since this would suggest that they are conscious of it. The good/admirable behavior of animals, is done out of instinct and affection.

    Creation has been corrupted (Romans 8:19-23), because of the fall of mankind. But does not commit sin, as man does.
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