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  1. #31
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lane777 View Post
    Leviticus 19:28 You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the LORD.
    Huh, I guess I need to get back to Leviticus again. Thanks!
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #32
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lane777 View Post
    I'm not too clear on what exactly you're asking, but I'll take a stab Most of secular society, holds the view that morals are inborn. Morals however, originate from God (or from within religion, as some might put it) - which is the meaning of Romans 7:7 (Atheists chose to adopt some of these practices simply because of their practical application; many Biblical proverbs/precepts contribute to happiness.)
    They contribute to human happiness, in every culture that's known to exist, yet aren't inborn?

    One relatively primitive region of the brain has indeed been observed making us feel good about making others happy (as long as they're perceived as deserving it and we haven't yet been conditioned to class them as part of the 'out-group') and bad about making them unhappy. Other animal species have this instinct too.

    It's in competition with other instincts of course, the desires for food, sex, security and revenge being a few that can over-ride the desire not to cause distress depending on the circumstances and relative strengths of these desires at the time. It's one thing to suggest this 'conscience' is a gift from God, but it's another to ignore all the evidence that it's something we're born with.

  3. #33
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    They contribute to human happiness, in every culture that's known to exist, yet aren't inborn?

    One relatively primitive region of the brain has indeed been observed making us feel good about making others happy (as long as they're perceived as deserving it and we haven't yet been conditioned to class them as part of the 'out-group') and bad about making them unhappy. Other animal species have this instinct too.

    It's in competition with other instincts of course, the desire for food, sex, security and revenge being a few that can over-ride the desire not to cause distress depending on the circumstances and relative strengths of these desires at the time.
    But not everyone in the culture subscribes to those ideas, just the culture at large. By your argument, because murder is found in every culture that's known to exist, that could be inborn.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  4. #34
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    But not everyone in the culture subscribes to those ideas, just the culture at large. By your argument, because murder is found in every culture that's known to exist, that could be inborn.
    It doesn't matter. Not everyone shares the instinct for heterosexual sex, or for sex at all. Some people have been found with a condition that makes them experience pleasurable sensations in the face of what would otherwise be painful injuries. That doesn't make these instincts any less inborn in the rest of us, it's just the nature of genetic variation.

    No different from other genetic traits. There are some that most have and some that almost everyone has. The fact that occasionally someone is born with four legs doesn't mean that being born with two legs is not genetic.

  5. #35
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Regardless if they are no longer applicable in most Christian teaching they are still funny: This one cracked me up

    '#82 Not to indulge in familiarities with relatives, such as kissing, embracing, winking, skipping, which may lead to incest'

    'Yeah Dad we were just 'skipping' playing jacks and next thing you know I Sis and I started porking each other. Damm you 'skipping'!
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  6. #36
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    It doesn't matter. Not everyone shares the instinct for heterosexual sex, or for sex at all. Some people have been found with a condition that makes them experience pleasurable sensations in the face of what would otherwise be painful injuries. That doesn't make these instincts any less inborn in the rest of us, just takes in to account individual genetic variation.
    I don't see the point you're making here, either. You could appeal to temporal lobe epileptics who have profound religious experiences when their brain's electrical storms go off in a purely biological manner, and your point wouldn't even hold.

    Yes, biology exists. However, the onus is on you to explain why this precludes any higher being's involvement--the best you can say is that you choose to restrict your epistemological grounds to science, but then appealing to the philosophy of science puts you in the same position as theistic believers--you're still laying your chips down at the foot of a belief system, to the exclusion of other belief system choices.

    Christianity does not preclude the symphonic directives of biology, it includes it--the Bible is full of teachings about that which is living, tangible and physical. OTOH, those who assert that biology is the only logical option for knowing have to make a case for disowning every other major epistemological inquiry. Yours is a tall task.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  7. #37
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    '#106 Not to castrate the male of any species; neither a man, nor a domestic or wild beast, nor a fowl'

    Yeah my cat pointed this one out to me the day we discussed having him fixed. So don't blame me pagan neighbor with the pregnant feline.:rolli:

    Thats the cool thing about being Christianity, Islam or Judaism, is you can call everyone else pagans.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  8. #38
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I don't see the point you're making here, either. You could appeal to temporal lobe epileptics who have profound religious experiences when their brain's electrical storms go off in a purely biological manner, and your point wouldn't even hold.

    Yes, biology exists. However, the onus is on you to explain why this precludes any higher being's involvement--the best you can say is that you choose to restrict your epistemological grounds to science, but then appealing to the philosophy of science puts you in the same position as theistic believers--you're still laying your chips down at the foot of a belief system, to the exclusion of other belief system choices.

    Christianity does not preclude the symphonic directives of biology, it includes it--the Bible is full of teachings about that which is living, tangible and physical. OTOH, those who assert that biology is the only logical option for knowing have to make a case for disowning every other major epistemological inquiry. Yours is a tall task.
    My point was merely that morality, at least, if we're talking strictly about the 'Golden Rule' aspect of morality, which we probably are as lane777 was talking about the precepts that atheists tend to follow, is indeed inborn. Most Christians I know do believe that it's inborn as well, so it wasn't even a theistic vs. atheistic point.

  9. #39
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    My point was merely that morality, at least, if we're talking strictly about the 'Golden Rule' aspect of morality, which we probably are as lane777 was talking about the precepts that atheists tend to follow, is indeed inborn. Most Christians I know do believe that it's inborn as well, so it wasn't even a theistic vs. atheistic point.
    You're right. Sorry for skimming your first point.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  10. #40
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    You're right. Sorry for skimming your first point.
    Don't worry, I do it all the time.

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