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Aren't we all racists?

Aren't we all racists?

  • Yes, in a way.

    Votes: 17 25.0%
  • No way.

    Votes: 16 23.5%
  • Prejudiced, but not racist.

    Votes: 35 51.5%

  • Total voters
    68
G

Ginkgo

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I can read, thanks. And I still disagree.

When you look at this man, what do you notice? What does it make you think of him?

Does his apparel and location indicate of his social status?

homeless.jpg


Surely, there are some individuals who accessorize above their paychecks. However, they may still live within a particular socioeconomic region in which a certain dialect is spoken. That dialect indicates a certain social status.
 

Lauren Ashley

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When you look at this man, what do you notice? What does it make you think of him?

Does his apparel and location indicate of his social status?
Irrelevant to my point.

Surely, there are some individuals who accessorize above their paychecks. However, they may still live within a particular socioeconomic region in which a certain dialect is spoken. That dialect indicates a certain social status.
And if they speak perfect English? Then they are not of a lower class? One doesn't have to be from a certain socioeconomic background to know how to enunciate.
 

Magic Poriferan

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Wait, wait... I'm losing track. Is someone here denying that race, gender, ethnicity, religion, and class all influence each other? I never was.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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No matter what class one's appearance and possessions are indicative of, (regardless of the quality of the item) they still signify the culture one come's from.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
And if they speak perfect English? Then they are not from a lower class? One doesn't have to be from a certain socioeconomic background to know how to enunciate.

No, they don't have to. But if this man came up to you and said "How do you do ma'am?", would his visage indicate a certain status?

tails1_.jpg


If this man said "What up holmes?", would his appearance and attitude indicate a certain status?

slim-thug-greedy-genius-sf2-1.jpg


The first man could, conceivably live in the ghetto, while the second man may very well live in a mansion. But their appearances indicate a first impression because of social stereotypes.
 

Lauren Ashley

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No, they don't have to. But if this man came up to you and said "How do you do ma'am?", would his visage indicate a certain status?
...
If this man said "What up holmes?", would his appearance and attitude indicate a certain status?
...

The first man could, conceivably live in the ghetto, while the second man may very well live in a mansion. But their appearances indicate a first impression because of social stereotypes.
Those two could be of the same class (how inexpensive do you think those sneakers are?). If you want to discuss culture, discuss culture. If you want to discuss class, discuss class.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
Those two could be of the same class (how inexpensive do you think those sneakers are?). If you want to discuss culture, discuss culture. If you want to discuss class, discuss class.

I know. They could be of any class. They could live in the same house for all I know. But their appearances are suggestive to a biased person.

Class and culture are relative.
 

Magic Poriferan

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Those two could be of the same class (how inexpensive do you think those sneakers are?). If you want to discuss culture, discuss culture. If you want to discuss class, discuss class.

Hmmm.. My sociology professor said that the wealthiest people in the country definitely have a different culture.
 

Lauren Ashley

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Hmmm.. My sociology professor said that the wealthiest people in the country definitely have a different culture.
There is a relationship between culture and class, yes. But in Mystic Tater's example, the man in the second photo would be indicative of a lower class person. Many celebrities such as athletes and musicians dress that way, yet they are typically of the highest class.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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Yes but that style of dress is indicative of a culture to which many people attach negative connotations.

Yes many athletes, celebrities, and musicians dress that way, but so do most street drug dealers, and gang members.
 

Lauren Ashley

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Yes but that style of dress is indicative of a culture to which many people attach negative connotations.

Which is why I say: if you wish to discuss culture, discuss culture. We were discussing class and that's what I'm saying can not be determined by factors such as clothing.
 

Ulaes

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according to some 'other race' theory, naturally we all kind of are until we find someone of the other race with significant physical difference to ourselves that we can indenify as an individual/person/friend, then they stop "all looking alike" and we drop our "us" and "them" perspective. eh.

yes im aware there are more than two races.
 

Haphazard

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according to some 'other race' theory, naturally we all kind of are until we find someone of the other race with significant physical difference to ourselves that we can indenify as an individual/person/friend, then they stop "all looking alike" and we drop our "us" and "them" perspective. eh.

yes im aware there are more than two races.

So, "I'm not racist, I have (X race) friends" is actually... true?
 

Thalassa

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Yes, we're all naturally prejudiced about our primary in-group to which we have been socialized. However, that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with race.
 

lowtech redneck

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Onto the topic under discussion:

The human mind is wired to look for and perceive patterns. Often, this results in people either perceiving patterns which don't really exist (but correspond to their imperfect memories of their own experience), or else perceiving patterns which do exist but their imperfect knowledge and understanding attribute erroneous cause and effect toward. In primitive times, this helped to maximize chances of survival through tribalism (among other things), but in modern times its something problematic which must be overcome through education and socialization. In other words, we're all (at a minimum) a little bit prejudiced, which often manifest as racism, but the two are not exactly the same.
 

simulatedworld

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I know you were referring to the US; no I'm not referring to NY. "White people" consists of a wide variety of people, of multiple and diverse origins. My point was that I see certain groups, that are not racial minorities, openly display their pride and it's A-okay for them to do so. I imagine it would be different if they were to just display "white" pride.

Except it's not A-OK. Show me a white power supporter that most people in this country would consider politically correct.

If they're showing something like Irish pride, then that's probably politically correct, but that's more a nationality than a race.

You can't have your cake and eat it too--are they racial minorities or aren't they? I am talking about pride in skin color here, not nationality. That's a totally different topic. No white person in the US is a racial minority!

There are official criteria by which the census takers and other people doing demographic studies divide race, and it typically goes black/white/hispanic/asian or pacific islander/native american and sometimes a couple other groupings.

My point, of course, is that while it may be acceptable for white Irish people to show "Irish pride", it's absolutely not acceptable for them to show "white pride."

For genuine racial minorities, though, it's acceptable to have both "black pride" and "Nigerian pride" (or whatever specific country you happen to be from.)

This is a matter of skin color and you're turning it into a question of national origin. Pick one.
 

Lauren Ashley

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Except it's not A-OK. Show me a white power supporter that most people in this country would consider politically correct.

Follow, you're not actually disagreeing with what I said:

I imagine it would be different if they were to just display "white" pride.

You can't have your cake and eat it too--are they racial minorities or aren't they?
Again, follow. I never said they were minorities.

For genuine racial minorities, though, it's acceptable to have both "black pride" and "Nigerian pride" (or whatever specific country you happen to be from.)

Aside from black, what other racial minorities are displaying this "color" pride? Are Asians saying "yellow" or "brown" pride?
 

lowtech redneck

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This is a matter of skin color and you're turning it into a question of national origin. Pick one.

To be fair, black Americans (those descended from slaves, anyway) have legitimate reasons to consider race rather than national origin a defining characteristic of their identity. But yeah, "hispanic" or "asian" pride is generally just as stupid as "white" pride.
 

simulatedworld

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lauren ashley said:

I've seen occasional "aZn pryde" movements and so on, mostly just nerdy full time WoW players who don't have much else to base their self-esteem on.

There's also something of an Hispanic pride movement developing in the southern US, where a lot of Hispanics are currently migrating from Central America. I don't think they necessarily hate non-Hispanics, but it's just another way of pumping yourself up by adhering to some arbitrary "us vs. them" mentality.

I think you're right that it seems to come from blacks more often than anyone else. I'm all for racial equality and all, but "be proud of your race" is simply the wrong way to go about it--we need to teach children to ignore race entirely if we really want to see any progress. Drawing attention to such meaningless differences in the name of "celebrating diversity" only accomplishes just that--drawing unnecessary attention to meaningless demographic differences.

If we want future generations to stop thinking of race as a big deal, we need to stop teaching them that it is.
 
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