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View Poll Results: Aren't we all racists?

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  • Yes, in a way.

    19 26.39%
  • No way.

    16 22.22%
  • Prejudiced, but not racist.

    37 51.39%
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  1. #101
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Racism: to arbitrarily attach any predisposition of any kind to that categorized group of people; whether it's true or not has no impact whotsoever. If yeu make ANY pattern recognition with that group that yeu created by yeurself, with anything else, then yeu have been racist in some way shape or form. This pattern may actually be there, it may be accurate, but it's still racist to have set any distinctive behaviour or quality to that 'race' just because they're a member of that race.

    As such, yes, we're all racist in that manner.
    That's not racism. That's called noticing differences.

    Let's use the official definition.

    Definitions: Racism
    Noun
    1. The prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races.

    2. Discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race.

  2. #102
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    EnFpFer you are missing that many people in the south don't see the confederate flag as racist at all. They see it as something to symbolize the south. I guess a question would be what else is there that symbolizes the south.

    I don't care, I'm a yankee, I just know that many people don't look at it as racist. Southern pride can be a different discussion than racism. It's not a definite equal.
    Many white people in the South don't view it as racist, but the vast majority of black people in the South do, and the many white people who fly it are well aware of this fact. There are also large groups of whites in the South who also find it offensive.

    There is no agreement in the South that the Confederate flag is representative of it, and you can probably count on one hand the number of blacks who will say that the flag represents the South--with many of the Southern states having some of the largest percentages of African Americans in the country. American blacks have been almost entirely Southern historically, so it's pretty sad and rather telling that the chosen symbol of "Southern Pride" is so blatantly polarizing along racial lines. Finding another symbol would be nice.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  3. #103
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Or someone who doesn't define entire races based on individuals they meet.
    Pattern recognition is the innate ability, often subconscious, of percieving patterns where there may or may not be any, and then attempting to categorize them based on pre-set categories.

    Yeu may state that 'it's up to the individual' but yeu'll also have 'but in general, this seems to be a trend'. Do yeu think black guys have bigger dicks? Racist, regardless of whether it's true or not. It's a pattern attached to a 'race'. As 'races' don't even really exist, yeu had to've taken some qualities to make up that race in the first place to classify them as traits of that race yeu designed.

    That being said, being willing to go out of yeur way to avoid trying to define a race by individual's standards is definately one thing, however, if yeu consistantly run into a trend, even if it's just BLIND LUCK, yeur brain will automatically form a pattern recognition of it. The better yeur brain is at pattern recognition, the more outlandish it can make these patterns, and make them with less information available. Essentially, the smarter yeu are, the more likely yeu are to have some form of racist profile, even if yeu go out of yeur way to avoid it.

    Personally, I've come to the conclusion that many minorities play the 'race card' to get whot they want. I know not all do this, and probably not even 10% of people do it, but the fact that it happens often enough to be noticed, and loudly and vocal enough by the few who do, means that there is a connection there.

    I've made connections that 'most people in the southern states are deeply religious', this's after having dealt with about half the states via a call center, and the upper states never tried to pray for me or convert me over the phone whent hey're supposed to be talking about their cable tv O.o The southern states had a fair number of people do this. I know obviously not all southern americans are like that, I know there's probably more atheists than there are people who go that psycho that they try to convert every single person they meet, but it's those who're the most vocal who stand out. I'll base it on the individual, and let them show themselves one way or another whether they fall into the generalized category or not, but if I know I'll be talking to someone from the bible belt, I'm going to have a few generalized expectations to start with; they may or may not fall under those expectations, and I'll leave that up to their own actions to display, but I am actually racist because if they DO try to convert me on the spot within minutes of meeting me... I'll have actually been kinda halfway expecting it, and won't hold it against them as much as I would other people.

    As long as yeu have any 'possible generalities' of any kind, even if yeu don't act on them, and leave it up to the individual, as long as yeu are capable of making a pattern, there's at least some degree of racism in there. It's just not a bad thing like the term implies at all. Our capacity to survive depends upon being able to quickly size up those around us and make evaluations rapidly to keep us from getting into massive trouble; physical appearance is one tool we have at our disposal to try to do so. If we didn't try to quickly categorize people, we'd never get anything done, or if we did, it'd be disasterous.

    If yeu see a mexican person, do yeu tiptoe around the topic of illegal aliens? Or try to avoid the topic altogeather? Yeu've just assumed they may have a strong opinion on it, BAM yeu're racist right there. Did yeu avoid saying a joke yeu thought was funny because yeu thought they might be offended? BAM racist! How about just idly wondering if yeu should mention yeu're going to taco bell for lunch and asking if they want any, or if they'd take it poorly, or if yeu should just treat them like everyone else? The fact that yeu even considered this at all... BAM racist.

    It's not bad, it's how we survive. If yeu are politically correct, the mere process of being so is racist, sexist, etc at it's very core.

    Being sensitive to another's race or gender IS racist/sexist, only by treating someone EXACTLY THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE REGARDLESS OF THE FALLOUT, can yeu not be racist. If yeu call a woman "hey man", yeu're probably going ot get in trouble for it (I do this myself though, and have gotten called on it a few times, I just use 'man' as generic statement don't ask me why I don't know XD ) but it is actually less sexist than calling her 'maam', which implies yeu think yeu should think of her differently than a man.

    In short, yes, yeu need to do it. It's not a bad thing. If yeu didn't, yeu'd be incapable of any social interaction at all.

  4. #104
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    That's not racism. That's called noticing differences.

    Let's use the official definition.

    Definitions: Racism
    Noun
    1. The prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races.

    2. Discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race.
    Prejudice; An opinion or judgment formed without due examination.
    Note that there's no way to really get due examination of most of the things we have to form opinions on in daily life without deep intimate conversation.

    To state 'superior' is very vague as well, as it can apply to anything from 'less likely to be offended' to 'arrogant/stupid/slothful'. If I assume that talking to a black person about obama, that their opinion of race MAY apply there, I'm assuming that they are inferior in their relation to how they percieve obama as a person and as a form of government, and are biased in their opinion. A black person will either be more critical of obama, or more forgiving, for good or ill, chances are virtually guaranteed that there'll be some connection there whether they want it or not, even if only because people keep bugging them about it "dude yer black whot do yeu think of obama!?" crap constantly. But the fact that yeu've assumed that they may have an opinion because of that, is by definition assumming that they are morally inferior to someone who wasn't black. Superior's such a vague term sadly, especially since ANY sliding scale on ANY topic applies...



    Next off, discriminatory practices can be beneficial and negative. Interacting with someone in ANY way different is discriminatory, just going out of yeur way to ask a black person about obama while trying really hard to avoid mentioning anything against black people in the conversation at all, means that yeu discriminated against them in a way by slanting the conversation.

    Discrimination: unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice.

    Yeu'd be prejudiced to think they would be offended by a racial joke; yeu'd be discriminatory to actually deprive them of the joke. This isn't a bad thing! Otherwise yeu'd just piss off EVERYONE yeu came into contact with >.>

  5. #105
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Pattern recognition is the innate ability, often subconscious, of percieving patterns where there may or may not be any, and then attempting to categorize them based on pre-set categories.

    In short, yes, yeu need to do it. It's not a bad thing. If yeu didn't, yeu'd be incapable of any social interaction at all.
    Everyone notices differences, we are different, culture and customs make us different and I love that fact, noticing these differences however, is not a form of racism unless we pass judgment on it and consider them inferior/superior to others because of race and/or discriminate against someone for this reason. You're warping the meaning of racism.


    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    If yeu see a mexican person, do yeu tiptoe around the topic of illegal aliens? Or try to avoid the topic altogeather? Yeu've just assumed they may have a strong opinion on it, BAM yeu're racist right there.
    About the only thing I'd think/say if I met a Mexican would be your country wins at food.

    That's not racist, I just love nachos.


    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Discrimination: unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice.

    Yeu'd be prejudiced to think they would be offended by a racial joke; yeu'd be discriminatory to actually deprive them of the joke. This isn't a bad thing! Otherwise yeu'd just piss off EVERYONE yeu came into contact with >.>
    I'm offended by racist jokes. I discriminate against my own possibility of offence?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Yeu'd be prejudiced to think they would be offended by a racial joke; yeu'd be discriminatory to actually deprive them of the joke. This isn't a bad thing! Otherwise yeu'd just piss off EVERYONE yeu came into contact with >.>
    This doesn't make any sense. Just to be clear, I owe it to other ethnic groups to make distasteful jokes about them, otherwise I'm likely to piss them off?

    What is up with the conscious misspelling of you?

  7. #107
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    In my experience, America is much more classist/cliquish than racist.

    Then again, I'm not exactly from the South...
    I say all civilizations discriminate more by class than anything else.
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  8. #108
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I say all civilizations discriminate more by class than anything else.
    Exactly. I'd say America seems more racist than it actually is because of this.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #109
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I've seen some people in this thread state things like "children are not racist", and that makes racism unnatural.
    Children don't have pubic hair, either. It must be unnatural.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  10. #110
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    Of course. And further, rather than losing who he was, he may have very well gained a more expansive identity.
    More likely, the personal characteristics that attracted you to him, buttressed by his upbringing which in turn was nurtured and reinforced by his accumulated (generational as well as spacial) cultural environment, would be greatly diminished by a decision to throw away such an emotionally ingrained link to said culture and upbringing. In any event, are you really comfortable stigmatizing him in the eyes of strangers as a bigot who probably belongs to the Klan? That's, uh, exactly what you did in your first response to my post....

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