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  1. #1
    ♪♫♪♫♪♫ luminous beam's Avatar
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    Lightbulb What is innocence?

    This thread was inspired by a song line that says "innocence cannot be lost, it just needs to be maintained." What is innocence? Is it possible that we are all still innocent? Can innocence be lost as we are exposed to this cruel world we live in? If innocence can be maintained, does it become part of our unconscious awaiting to be resurfaced by maintaining it?


  2. #2
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    In some ways innocence can be gained with more exposure to the crueler aspects of the world. People who have had an easy life can be kind and innocent, but can be surprisingly non-empathetic to others. I think the person who has every reason to be cruel, but somehow learned kindness instead has a core innocence that can't be stolen.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #3
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    The truth in youth.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #4
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Innocence is that which is not corrupted. And what is corrupted depends on the person.

  5. #5
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Innocence, by my personal definition, requires not having made choices based on personal gain or greed in general.

    As soon as yeu've ever made any choice of any kind with any sort of conscious decision, however, yeu're no longer innocent, and pretty much never will be again as all decisions, at some level, stem from greed.

    That being said, as soon as a baby demands milk from it's mother, it's asking her to give up part of her own nutrition and self for the child's own benefit with the only benefit returned being that they'll stop crying; if yeu did this elsewhere in life, with the same situation of doing something bad and accepting payment to stop, well... "Extortion: Illegal use of one's official position or powers to obtain property", using the position of "I'm yeur child" to get food, which's described as personal property.

    Sure yeu're legally required to provide such until they're 18, but still!

    The decision process itself has already begun with the "Mememememe!" mentality. Everyone gives stuff TO me, I need not return anything back. This isn't innocence, but rather quite the opposite.

    Which leads us to the concept... when does it stop being 'innocence' and become criminal? The difference seems to lie primarily in the individual's capacity for reason. If they can consciously make the decision to do so, then they are no longer innocent. Therefore, any human being who has developed enough to actually think, has already lost their innocence by default.

    "Zomg yeu killed those innocent bystanders!" pft no they were hardly innocent; they may not've done a crime befitting that particular punishment, but they were guilty of SOMETHING. Note that even THOUGHT was once punishable by death; guilty thoughts, such as coveting something someone else has... is actually a major sin in biblical terms. And technically still applies, though not legally anymore. Amusingly enough, yeu used to actually not be allowed to have a man marry any woman if that woman was not the ONLY person he'd EVER had any naughty thoughts about EVER. Yeu can see how well that was enforced considering the species didn't go extinct in 3 generations with a zero birthrate. >.>;

    In any case, noone's innocent. If yeu can think, yeu've already failed the test; however, yeu can still be innocent of particular charges or allegations, just not "pure" 100% of the time.

  6. #6
    Junior Member Bachelor Blumfeld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Innocence is that which is not corrupted. And what is corrupted depends on the person.
    Hi, I find this interesting. It usually appears to me that people (not directed at you) often use 'Innocence' and 'Ignorance' the same way conceptually, but only demarcate them differently through particulars. For instance if I were to explain to someone for the first time the difference between immanent and transcendental deities it would be rending ignorance on the other persons part. Yet if I were to explain an orgasm to someone it would be imposing my nefarious, corrupt self onto their 'innocence'. How can truth be imparted in the same way, yet the other's state of being (their innocence or ignorance) be different? Is innocence simply a euphemism for ignorance?

  7. #7
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    This encapsulates my understanding of innocence involving compassion as a response to suffering.

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMab_lYY5lE]Thich Nhat Hanh[/youtube]
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Liminality's Avatar
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    On one hand:

    There are only levels of guilt.

    I suppose it comes down to optimism, ignorance and guilt.

    I guess unawareness, where no vanit, but equally self reflection comes into play - being incapable of seeing a particular side/being ignorant to ... but approcahing it with good intentions...

    On another: There are different kinds of the same running concept:

    I suppose ignorance is something that can be changed, innocence is an innate ignorance to...something or other, and lack of darker things. Ignorance is about capacity, and understanding, a thing to be filled, innocence is about something already filled with a certain substance, perhaps the faintest hint of a maze, or gas, that colours perceptions. To an extent anyway. You could call it being blunted I guess...

    Sensotard moments are an innocence of extraverted sensing, Extravertedtard moments are an innocence of intoversion - eg a major intovert and two hyper Extraverts go on a week long trip, by the end the I is exhausted, and just needs to get back to their self. One of the Es is all 'what's wrong, what's wrong??????$"$%" getting all up in the I's face because they seem down and are shutting off externally.

    Hmm, that still seems more related to ignorance...

    It's a hard concept to figure out sometimes...

    EDIT: Hmmm Maybe you can be innocent, and then switch to a darker set of life train tracks, and then return to innocence again; return to the unadulterated, light, gentleness, only wanting rest and...lightness.
    Come along Fool
    A direct hit of the senses you are disconnected
    It's not that it's bad, it's not that it's death
    It's just on the tip of your tongue, and you're so silent

  9. #9
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    I prefer to think Innocence as something to akin to lack of awareness. The innocent are merely ignorant of the evils that lurk within their hearts.

  10. #10
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Innocence to me, is being ignorant to the true realities of the world--of having the same feelings of safety and comfort as a little kid. It doesn't meet the dictionary criteria, nor the court's, but that's what it means to me.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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