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  1. #11
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    A dream. An ideal. Not a reality.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  2. #12
    ♪♫♪♫♪♫ luminous beam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    In some ways innocence can be gained with more exposure to the crueler aspects of the world. People who have had an easy life can be kind and innocent, but can be surprisingly non-empathetic to others. I think the person who has every reason to be cruel, but somehow learned kindness instead has a core innocence that can't be stolen.
    That's a beautiful way of perceiving those who have experienced gruesome things in life yet somehow appear to maintain hope and a kindness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Innocence is that which is not corrupted. And what is corrupted depends on the person.
    This kind of goes off what toonia was stating, where a person whose undergone some fucked up things in their life chooses to maintain their innocence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Which leads us to the concept... when does it stop being 'innocence' and become criminal? The difference seems to lie primarily in the individual's capacity for reason. If they can consciously make the decision to do so, then they are no longer innocent. Therefore, any human being who has developed enough to actually think, has already lost their innocence by default.

    ...

    In any case, noone's innocent. If yeu can think, yeu've already failed the test; however, yeu can still be innocent of particular charges or allegations, just not "pure" 100% of the time.
    I can see what you're saying, but you're using the terms innocence, ignorance and purity interchangeably.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bachelor Blumfeld View Post
    Hi, I find this interesting. It usually appears to me that people (not directed at you) often use 'Innocence' and 'Ignorance' the same way conceptually, but only demarcate them differently through particulars. For instance if I were to explain to someone for the first time the difference between immanent and transcendental deities it would be rending ignorance on the other persons part. Yet if I were to explain an orgasm to someone it would be imposing my nefarious, corrupt self onto their 'innocence'. How can truth be imparted in the same way, yet the other's state of being (their innocence or ignorance) be different? Is innocence simply a euphemism for ignorance?
    In the dictionary innocence is defined as:

    innocence (?n'?-s?ns)
    n.
    1. The state, quality, or virtue of being innocent, as:

      1. Freedom from sin, moral wrong, or guilt through lack of knowledge of evil. Who are we to truly define who is innocent and who isn't if this is defined as something that is purely subjective to every person.
      2. Guiltlessness of a specific legal crime or offense.
      3. Freedom from guile, cunning, or deceit; simplicity or artlessness.
      4. Lack of worldliness or sophistication; naivet. I think there's a difference between guiltlessness, naivety and a freedom from guile, cunning or deceit. Primary, one being accused of something one isn't guilty of. Secondly, complete unawareness due to being unexposed to people, things, circumstances, actions and reactions..."life." Thirdly, though after being exposed to "life" the person still remains without the desire or corruption of knowing how to cheat or lie, or perhaps refuses to, even if capable of doing so.
      5. Lack of knowledge or understanding; ignorance. I guess this is the definition most of you have defined innocence by so far.
      6. Freedom from harmfulness; inoffensiveness. Self sacrificing, tame, "turns the other cheek."
    2. One that is innocent.



    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    This encapsulates my understanding of innocence involving compassion as a response to suffering.

    [youtube="NMab_lYY5lE"]Thich Nhat Hanh[/youtube]
    It seems as if innocence could be the kindest of notions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Liminality View Post
    I suppose ignorance is something that can be changed, innocence is an innate ignorance to...something or other, and lack of darker things. Ignorance is about capacity, and understanding, a thing to be filled, innocence is about something already filled with a certain substance, perhaps the faintest hint of a maze, or gas, that colours perceptions. To an extent anyway. You could call it being blunted I guess...
    ...
    EDIT: Hmmm Maybe you can be innocent, and then switch to a darker set of life train tracks, and then return to innocence again; return to the unadulterated, light, gentleness, only wanting rest and...lightness.
    I liked your input, I believe innocence is innate but perhaps not so much only linked to ignorance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Son of the Damned View Post
    I prefer to think Innocence as something to akin to lack of awareness. The innocent are merely ignorant of the evils that lurk within their hearts.
    Could innocence be something innate that is simply resilient to being killed by "the evils that lurk within" or without? It's an interesting concept to think that innocence could never really be killed. However, it is so pure and delicate (as it is born when we are born), that when exposed to the toils of life and knowledge and experience it goes into hiding. Unless of course, we nurse it back to health and choose to make it stay.


  3. #13
    S Saiyan God Mace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    In some ways innocence can be gained with more exposure to the crueler aspects of the world. People who have had an easy life can be kind and innocent, but can be surprisingly non-empathetic to others. I think the person who has every reason to be cruel, but somehow learned kindness instead has a core innocence that can't be stolen.
    Seems realistic.

    ... Agreed.

  4. #14
    Junior Member Bachelor Blumfeld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luminous beam View Post
    [*]Freedom from guile, cunning, or deceit; simplicity or artlessness.[*]Lack of worldliness or sophistication; naivet. Thirdly, though after being exposed to "life" the person still remains without the desire or corruption of knowing how to cheat or lie, or perhaps refuses to, even if capable of doing so.
    Innocence is not a value or some axiomatic position one ascribes to their behavior. To know of say worldly corruption (whatever that may be) and actively refrain from it, is an ethical action. An innocent person would simply be bereft of the knowledge of worldly corruption, or corrupt people. There is no conscious ethic imbued in their action.

  5. #15
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    I don't associate innocence with ignorance. It's more like a wisdom in people (the rare people who have managed to keep theirs).

    lol this is from wikianswers (on childlike innocence but i view innocence and childlike innocence as the same), and it sums up how how i view innocence too: "Childlike innocence is the attitude of heart where one is untainted by pride, self importance and open to the good with a pure heart."

    Like there are some people who just have an incredible inner sweetness like that of a child (corny haha).

  6. #16
    S Saiyan God Mace's Avatar
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    Innocence is not an easy attribute to 'standardize' any way - what comes across pure, and innocent to one comes across differently to another. It's even more debatable because it is to do with what goes on in people's heads, which again is subjective in the views across person to person.

    ... None the less, the way I view innocence is to do with one's greatness - particularly since life's greater purpose is determined by how good he, or she goes about in the world. Innocence really bears testimony to that kind of power, which isn't decided in any average individual from the cradle.

    It also ought to be noted that innocence, and ignorance are separate terms, particularly since the irony is that ignorance is (potentially) what costs a lot of people their innocence to the tensions of the world ahead, especially since (presumably) everybody start life off innocent. A test of potential, if you'd call...

    (Hope that clears things up.)

  7. #17
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Innocence is the flame of life. It is the sense of child-like wonder and selfless attention that grounds you to the universe. It is also a decision about how to see this Reality. Corruption only happens when we allow ourselves to fall.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

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