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  1. #71
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Heh, my brother: If an animal feels emotion, you didn't hit hard enough.

    Typical ENTP. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  2. #72
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Heh, my brother: If an animal feels emotion, you didn't hit hard enough.

    Typical ENTP. :P
    As an ENTP, we love to see our ideas/thoughts come to fruition.

    And, as he's an animal himself, I recommend you take a hammer and bash his brains out to the point he doesn't feel those emotions. You know, just to guage what quantifies 'hard enough' and 'emotion'.

    Lemme know how it goes. I'm curious.

  3. #73
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    I don't think animals have emotions. I've shot enough of them to know.

    I have also observed them enough too. If a deer has a fawn and a coyote shows up, the mother deer will run, leaving the defenseless fawn behind. She doesn't care, she will just have another fawn next season. Deer don't cry. (Although they might "cry" by making a noise from physical pain.) But there would be nothing she could do anyway even if she did stay, except get killed herself.
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #74
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Default Bambiiiiiiiiiiiiiii...................

    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    I don't think animals have emotions. I've shot enough of them to know.
    You (your bias and anecdotal stories) versus extensive studies/research.... Hmmm....who to believe. Who, who, who.

    Does it help you to know that they don't have emotions when you shoot them? Also, shooting enough of them, how do you evaluate their emotion? Were you waiting for them to plead, "Don't shoot me, please, it's going to hurt. I don't want to die!" And when they didn't speak up, it was = no emotion?

    I have also observed them enough too. If a deer has a fawn and a coyote shows up, the mother deer will run, leaving the defenseless fawn behind. She doesn't care, she will just have another fawn next season. Deer don't cry. (Although they might "cry" by making a noise from physical pain.) But there would be nothing she could do anyway even if she did stay, except get killed herself.
    Again, studies have shown otherwise, as has the Theory of Evolution:

    Mule deer moms rescue other fawns

    Not only do deer protect their own fawns, but sometimes does will protect others' fawns too.

    Mule deer are giving new meaning to watching out for other mothers' kids.

    An intriguing study of mule deer and whitetail deer conducted by the University of Alberta in Edmonton, Canada and the University of Lethbridge, also in Canada, showed that both species responded to the recorded distress calls of fawns, similar to the responses elicited when coyotes attack fawns, with mule deer mothers responding to both whitetail and mule deer calls, even when their own fawn stood next to them. In contrast, the whitetail mothers responded only to their own species' call, and only when they could not see their own fawn.

    "The fact that mule deer ran to the speaker when their own fawn was standing next to them safe and sound revealed they do not help other fawns because they mistake them for their own," said lead author Susan Lingle, who conducted the research as a postdoctoral fellow in biological sciences at the University of Alberta and in psychology at the University of Lethbridge.

    "It was surprising just how indiscriminate mule deer females were. For example, the females that weren't even mothers also ran to the speakers to help fawns. That would not be expected if females were simply trying to protect their own fawns."

    The results appear in this month's issue of Animal Behaviour.

    In field trials using speakers that broadcast the calls of fawns under threat, the mule deer came to the speaker and stayed there as long as the calls played, twisting and turning as they confronted the perceived attackers. Whitetail mothers that came close to the speaker tended to withdraw right away and then stayed safely outside that distance.

    The behaviour of mule deer defies traditional explanations that parental care, kin selection or reciprocity play a part in the defence of fawns other than their own. But while the study's findings seem to point to mule deer as superior mothers, the motivation for looking out for other fawns is likely based not on altruism but on simple survival, said Lingle.

    "Having a rigid and aggressive response to the simple sound of a fawn distress call may ensure effective defence of a female's own offspring, even though this means the female invests time and energy and puts herself at risk by helping many other animals. In contrast, a whitetail mother waits to assess whether a fawn is her own before she steps in to defend it. As a result, whitetail fawns suffer considerably more predation during the first months of life than do mule deer fawns."

    Mule deer may have developed a more effective aggressive defence because they rely on fighting to protect themselves against predators year-round, while whitetails and many other species restrict aggressive defence to just the youngest fawns. Whitetails rely on flight rather than fight for most of their lives, so this may affect their ability to mount an aggressive defence," Lingle said.
    Maybe it wasn't mule deer you saw. :rolli:

  5. #75
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    I don't think animals have emotions. I've shot enough of them to know.

    I have also observed them enough too. If a deer has a fawn and a coyote shows up, the mother deer will run, leaving the defenseless fawn behind. She doesn't care, she will just have another fawn next season. Deer don't cry. (Although they might "cry" by making a noise from physical pain.) But there would be nothing she could do anyway even if she did stay, except get killed herself.
    Fear is an emotion.

    /thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #76
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    First of all, I don't have "anecdotal stories" I'm just telling you from what I have observed first hand, in real life, in the wild. It is your choice to believe what you wish, but do not assume that what I tell you is hearsay.

    The story you posted is irrelevant. I mean, deer don't start "twisting and turning" when they see an attacker. I never said deer weren't curious because they are indeed VERY curious. Even when they know I am there because they heard me, but they can't pinpoint exactly where I am in the woods, they will stay there for hours looking for me trying to sniff me out. Eventually they will run though.

    Where is the evidence in that article about any "defense"? All it says is that they came to the call. That's just because they are curious, I assure you. And I'm SURE that both female AND male deer responded to the calls. They just didn't report the males.

    As far as them crying "don't shoot!", well, maybe there's a reason animals can't talk. [Yeah I know, that was pretty evil, sorry. ]But really, animals don't know what "shoot" means. They are born with an innate sense: automatically avoid man. Unless of course, you F with their offspring, then you will probably get a mixture of flight AND fight.

    But like I said, believe what you wish. If it makes you comfortable to believe that momma deer went to "save" other fawns, by all means, believe it.
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #77
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Fear is an emotion.

    /thread.
    Who's to say they are running because of fear? More than likely in that scenario they would just run because they know what would happen from experience.

    Perhaps it's more of an avoidance rather than a fear? Not sure how to explain it.

    When you are driving on the thruway, you avoid getting a ticket. You don't necessarily FEAR getting one. Ah.... thats a really bad example. lol
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #78
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Animals have emotions. Scientists actually studied about human depression using lab rats. What they did is put the rat in a cage and electrify the floor so the rat tries to escape. After many attempts to escape the rat gives up and just sits there standing the pain (depression). When the researchers opened the cage the rat didn't go out. (it becomes a depressed 'emo' rat)
    They say rats have very similar mind structure to humans. (or brain)

  9. #79
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Not that you can respond at the mo', but, I'm sure you're trolling the forums and since this is open access area, and mostly for my own vindication, and cuz I find these turn of events hilarious.......I'll 'reply'.

    I'm not holding a grudge against you, I just pointed out to you, your persona as I saw it, from the first time I interacted with you...truth is harsh, but, it's the truth. At most, carrying on a convo with you was like swatting a pest.

    The first ever interaction with you, I predicted to some others two things: (1) You are screwed in the head, (2) You will get banned soon.



    [hope you come back with a better outlook...sheesh]
    It's obvious you do hold a grudge against me. I already apologized so you can quit trying to bash on me, and if you persist with your negativity you will get more negativity in return, it's up to you.

  10. #80
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Animals have emotions. Scientists actually studied about human depression using lab rats. What they did is put the rat in a cage and electrify the floor so the rat tries to escape. After many attempts to escape the rat gives up and just sits there standing the pain (depression). When the researchers opened the cage the rat didn't go out. (it becomes a depressed 'emo' rat)
    They say rats have very similar mind structure to humans. (or brain)
    Poor little emo rats That reminds me of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

    But anyways, I very much believe animals have emotions. It just seems so apparent! My cat will be passive aggressive with me for days if I do something she doesn't like. She'll even walk into the room, glare at me, walk right past my feet quickly enough so that I don't have time to pet her, then climb into someone else's lap and just stare at me.
    Oh, and not sure this has been mentioned yet, but wasn't there a study a few months back showing that dogs do experience jealousy if another dog gets more attention/privileges? I'll have to find it.

    Edit: Here we go: Why dogs can sense fair play - CNN.com
    LONDON, England (CNN) -- Dogs appear to experience a range of complex, unpleasant emotions such as jealousy and pride, scientists have discovered.
    Dogs hate their owner showing affection to other dogs.

    Dogs hate their owner showing affection to other dogs.

    Until now, this type of behavior had only been shown in humans or chimpanzees, but researchers suspected that other species that live together could be sensitive to fair play -- or a lack of one.

    "We are learning that dogs, horses, and perhaps many other species are far more emotionally complex than we ever realized," Paul Morris, a psychologist at the University of Portsmouth who studies animal emotions, told The Sunday Times.

    "They can suffer simple forms of many emotions we once thought only primates could experience."

    Scientists noted that dogs hate to see their owners being affectionate to other dogs and can suffer if a new baby or partner arrives on the scene.

    To test the theory, Friederike Range and colleagues at the University of Vienna in Austria asked 33 trained dogs to extend a paw to a human.

    The animals performed the trick virtually all of the time whether they were given a reward or not -- when alone or with another dog.

    But the dogs' enthusiasm waned when they saw other dogs being rewarded but received nothing themselves.

    Dogs that were ignored extended their paws much less often, doing so in only 13 out of 30 trials. They also showed more stress, such as licking or scratching themselves.

    "They are clearly unhappy with the unfair situation", Range told New Scientist magazine. She also suspects that this sensitivity might stretch beyond food to more abstract things like praise and attention.

    "It might explain why some dogs react with 'new baby envy' when their owners have a child," she said.
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

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