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  1. #21
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJ123 View Post
    Yes is does have so much potential, don't worry about going hippy, I like hippies and I'm partly one myself, or just very open minded. Auras I believe are real, I just don't have experience in seeing them(well you can see it on that astronaut though), except for Kirlian photography. That would make sense though that babies are pure and blue and adults can carry negative energies and stress causing their aura to change, some say they see black on really negative people.

    Ah cool, I will be more open....

    It works both ways, I am not a partcuarly animal person never owned a pet etc. But when I go on holiday if there is a sick dogs in my local they love me, without intorductions, these dogs follow me around sit by my feet and are generally OK with me while being totally foul to other tourists. Healthy dogs have no interest in me what so ever.

    Ok back to auras... there is a thought that in order to heal physical issues, a person can suround themselves in different light, SAD sufferers find it helpful to have artifical sun light lamps, so it works on the same principal... perasumably white light and violet light is one of the best ones to use (although I'm pretty sure a lot of this is unproven).

    The colors of your cloths have an impact on your ether too.

    When people talk about auras, they are typically seeing the ether (FYI - I wonder if halos are seen as white light), but ethers can rip as well which causes the persons natrual energy to hemorage into the wider environment, this is different than the deficiency... the person would be in bad shape.

    Very interesting...

  2. #22
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Ah cool, I will be more open....

    It works both ways, I am not a partcuarly animal person never owned a pet etc. But when I go on holiday if there is a sick dogs in my local they love me, without intorductions, these dogs follow me around sit by my feet and are generally OK with me while being totally foul to other tourists. Healthy dogs have no interest in me what so ever.

    Ok back to auras... there is a thought that in order to heal physical issues, a person can suround themselves in different light, SAD sufferers find it helpful to have artifical sun light lamps, so it works on the same principal... perasumably white light and violet light is one of the best ones to use (although I'm pretty sure a lot of this is unproven).

    The colors of your cloths have an impact on your ether too.

    When people talk about auras, they are typically seeing the ether (FYI - I wonder if halos are seen as white light), but ethers can rip as well which causes the persons natrual energy to hemorage into the wider environment, this is different than the deficiency... the person would be in bad shape.

    Very interesting...
    wow that's pretty far out haha I don't think I heard of that before, but personally I go crazy if I don't see the sun or be in the sun at least a little. It also gives you vitamin D and stuff (good for protection from swine flu I hear too). So there probably is some truth to what you're saying. Also I think sun light is the best light, it's natural ya know? When growing plants and stuff it is definitely the best with full spectrum of light.

    hmm I also never heard about ethers ripping either, that's pretty interesting I never considered it.

  3. #23
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    I can't say for sure if I buy the ripping thing, but it would make sence with someone who is truly emotionally out of sorts.

    As for lights, I think different shades of light do different things... The Uk is dank over winter - many people go for the cosy dimmmed lights for 10 hours of the day when they get home then wonder why they are depressed come January...

    I think it may also link to why we atract specific types of people in packs to us... you go through phases where specific types of people come into your life (possibly because of the energy they or you omit), there are usually 4 or 5 people in say 18 week period who all seem very similar, then they disperse and you have your regualr people again... so you are attracting the energy you need....

    People who are emotionally unhealthy leave you feeling emotionally/spirtually drained, because they are absorbing more than they are giving.

    This stuff is a bottomless pit of issues and ideas...

  4. #24
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Some animals do some don't.
    Expand. What's the difference between some of these animals and the rest?

  5. #25
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    I suppose an emotion would be a non-thought processed method of reacting to stimuli, which can be directly noted through body language, changes in physical statistics such as heartbeat, blood pressure, and dialation of eyes and such.

    A physical reaction primarily, externally, but may heavily influence thought process from that point while in effect; someone who is sad due to someone dying is less likely to enjoy a joke about death.

    I'd state there's certain physiological details which can be used to be certain; the concept of FEAR, for one, is strongly tied to certain physiological changes. There's also the matter of the next point, below this one.
    The paper I quoted in my OP (the long ass one) addresses why the way you defined emotions is limiting and not always accurate.

    That paper does a good job of addressing the conceptualizing of emotions. Give it a read if interested; out of all the ENTPs, you, like me, are used to writing long monologues, so, it shouldn't be that bad for ya.






    The nervous system itself is NOT emotional.
    Didn't say it was, that wouldn't make any sense. Even the middle brain isn't EMOTIONAL. That statement has erronous association of terms.

    The nervous system itself is NOT emotional. This's in fact actually the middle brain in humans; the lower brain controls primarily automatic functions like heartrate and other 'must have to survives'. The middle brain controls semi-autonomous functions such as breathing (normally automatic but can be controlled), emotions (possible to control with practice but not guaranteed), walking (can skip, dance, walk, or change pace, but walk for a mile straight talking to someone and yeu'll be doing so automatically and not even notice it), and similar concepts; the upper brain is primarily controlling of fully controlled things, such as some rare motor control issues, but primarily, the capacity to actively suppress instinct, think rationally, and process new information in a logical manner.

    Basically, as long as the middle brain exists, it should theoretically be possible to perform a CAT scan and see if those sections of the brain are actually being used during a supposedly emotional reaction.

    That'd probably be fairly conclusive proof of emotions in some animals.
    The nervous system INCLUDES the brain, hence all parts in it.

    Central Nervous System (CNS) + Peripheral Nervous System (PNS) = Nervous System.

    CNS includes the brain. Brain includes midbrain. And so forth.

    Nervous system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  6. #26
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edasich View Post
    "Do animals feel emotions?" - the ones on your dinner plate do.
    *snicker* *snicker* BAD!

    Anway, cool quote: “The question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?” And yes, they can.
    Ah! Thank you, that's the quote that I summed up earlier in the thread, do you know where/who it's from?


    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    What is emotion?

    Ability to have suffering.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJ123 View Post
    All it takes is simple observation, like your example. It doesn't take a whole essay to see that they do have emotions. If people don't have the ability to recognize this, I think there is something seriously wrong with them themselves.
    This is an attempt to rationalize and over analyze something utterly simple.
    Ah yes, the troll has landed thinking he's Save-A-Captain-Obvious....

    ....must memo all the scientists, theorists, sociologists, zoologists, anthropologists, researchers, and philosophers that they've been debating (STILL) all this time for NO REASON! [it's more about how we're analyzing emotion and attributing them...READ the point of the thread, not just the title, lazy!]

    You, sir, need a lesson in critical thinking. I can't be of help as I don't have infinity on my side.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJ123 View Post
    That definition is flawed, not yours but the one that says emotion - ability to suffer. emotion is ability to be happy or sad simple.
    People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Your definition is short-sighted and thus, in my opinion, WRONG.

    What is happy? What is sad? How is that evaluated in an animal like a worm? When it curls itself like a ) or (, former happy, latter, sad?

    Genius! [<-- since you don't get it, that's sarcasm]

    ****
    Tinkerbell, I shall respond to you, in depth, later today, short on time. Sky is blue, when I get home from work, I'll see the vid. Thanks!

  8. #28
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    I don't see why they wouldn't. What is an emotion besides a chemical event that is designed to stimulate a response? Emotions, as a function of the human body and mind, evolved from somewhere, so I don't think it's that bizarre to think that emotions are present, however in a less complex and deep form, in other organisms. The increase in emotional range, understanding, and processes I would think mirrors that of the increased cognitive ability of our minds as well.



  9. #29
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    When a scared dog goes and hides you know that the emotion of fear within them is concious.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Kyrielle's Avatar
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    Yes, I think most animals feel emotions. (I would have a hard time arguing that an ant or termite has the ability to feel sad/happy, but then, we don't know much at all about ants or termites...we usually just want them destroyed. ) But I don't think they, generally, understand or feel the same complexity of emotions has humans.

    And I agree with Amargith about elephants probably having the emotional capabilities closest to humans. I've seen documentaries of elephants mourning their dead and revisting known gravesites of fallen herd members in much the same way we humans revist the graves of our dead family members.

    But a less exotic example would be the way dogs have a way of picking up on our emotional states and reflecting them back to us, which could suggest some level of empathic abilities (and an important ability for creatures to live in packs and social groups). If I am angry, my dog becomes angry and is on the alert for anything that could be going on to endanger us. Unfortunately, she doesn't understand that humans can become angry because of stuff that happened hours or days ago. This also works the other way around: If there's a thunderstorm and my dog is frightened, she will become calm if she is in the room with me and I am calm.


    Oh, and those rats supposedly laughing are adorable.
    "I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference."

    Robert Frost

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