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Modern Shamanism

INTJ123

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And from our roots I saw my future.

Take a gander at what Shamanism is really about.


[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVUrDyTCQCs"][YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVUrDyTCQCs"][/YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]


[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEglHjd_gUQ"][YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEglHjd_gUQ"][/YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]
 

Gewitter27

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witch_doctor-2.jpg

...Nuff said...

Hehehe... I anger you, don't I?

Oooh! A new, controversial thread, courtesy of INTJ123!!! Let the flame war BEGIN!
705px-Nuclear_fireball.jpg
 

INTJ123

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you are only proving what Terrance Mckenna said, "The western mind is a house of cards."
 

Son of the Damned

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Awesome to see more people interested in Terrence Mckenna's work, and his ideas still being played around with.
 

Feops

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Vague assertions of love and "energy" coupled with a claim of validity owing to its age. Unexplained link between morals, power, and punishment - dark evil places, etc, with no explanation of the power, punishments, etc. Notion of awareness or lack thereof, again, unexplained. Pictures of energy things meant to illustrate, maybe?

Just seems to be talk and no substance. Something you'd see people debate while in a drugged state of mind. :thumbdown:
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
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the guy in the first video may not give explanations, that does not mean there are none or that he does not know them (like i care if he does), its just a random interview.... but shamans are often rather poor in explaining things. their methodology does not include the attempt to make complete sense out of anything.

it's based on perception, which comes in fragments, in context, without preview, where perceptions can take the form of commands. soldiers of the force don't question the commands. if you talk to the kosmos you are not like: "hey kosmos, if you don't tell me in detail how you would punish me for betraying your will (please attach potographs), then i won't believe that you are serious about it" unless you really want to find out.

what the guy fails to elaborate on, is that people who are corrupt to begin with wont even get a noteworthy amount of power, and people who become corrupt after wards will not only be "punished" (just a metaphor), but also loose their power. its as simple as:

"If you bring forth what is within you
What you bring forth will save you.
If you do not bring forth what is within you,
What you do not bring forth will destroy you."


now i will speculate a bit.

i don't like the light darkness talk...

anything is polar and anything needs to be balanced. there are not just two poles of light and darkness.

its a primitive level of differentiation to acknowledge only these two sides. its just subjective.

the "power (skill) to stay balanced" is "power", and its not light or dark but good, because its constructive.

(also the word "power", in spiritual context, is not something that violently deforms something else. its a word like process or movement or flow or energy. it gets to its goal by cooperation with all involved laws. like judo. like you hair drier has power, too, because it channels it from the source to the target)


if you have a poorly differentiated worldview of black and white, then you have a unreliable compass and you wont achieve perfect balance that earth-ens the heavens, so your power will not be pure, it will just eathen a tiny bit of what the source has to offer.

so, the more differentiated the worldview, the more perspectives you hold, the more jin/jang aspects you can see, the better your compass is, and the more power you can have, if you succeed in obeying that inner voice/compass which has something to say about just any tiny aspect of your life. to be a calibrated "hair drier", you must be calibrated in every area.

it follows that people with a simple worldview of black and white are easily confident about their ability to obey their rough and vague simple black and white compass. so they believe they will become big shamans if they succeed. or that they are already as good as powerful as a human being could be.

but the sensitive modern person who holds a lot of perspectives is more likely overwhelmed by the incredibly complex task of watching out for all of those jing/jang thingies on each of the levels. it's seems impossible to keep them all centered. at best you manage to remain close enough to all the centers of balance to not destroy yourself or end up in hell, but you don't manage to open up that sharp center tunnel from heaven to earth, through all the balance centers, and so you know that you cant access your full human power potential.

the thing that distorts balance on all of the levels needs to die, so balance can be perfect on multiple levels at the same time. that thing is your egocentricity. so true modern shamanism requires enlightenment. but tribal black and white power-balance shamanism did not require it. but it was never as powerfull as modern shamanism could be. it was also something else entirely, if judged by what i can achieve in concrete terms. tribal shamanism messes mostly with the energy of the gross body. stories about soul healings are exceptions.

you don't have to believe what i write. it's just thoughts. unlike some chaos shamans, i try to complete the sense. come full circle. have a coherent worldview that includes and connects everything in a functional way. so i make up some aspects/relations/positions/connections.
 

Feops

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if you talk to the kosmos you are not like: "hey kosmos, if you don't tell me in detail how you would punish me for betraying your will (please attach potographs), then i won't believe that you are serious about it" unless you really want to find out.

Why not? Why does it need to be vague and mysterious? It's like ghosts, aliens, and ESP - people will provide steadfast accounts of seeing them happen, offer blurry photographs, have dreams, etc., but it all vanishes when actually brought forward to be held accountable with tangible evidence. Are supernatural events.. shy?

Heck, I'm not opposed to these things existing. I'd like to see aliens. I'd enjoy learning about ghosts. I would really like to be part of some giant cosmic collective with some sort of karmic scale. But.. where is it?

You brought up perspective. I think it's a good point to touch upon. My experience is that people who bring up cosmic energy and unity of the universe and such are generally not a 'normal' state when they come across these revelations. Either forceful alteration (drugs) or self-impairment (sleep) seem to be key. How is this altered state somehow more pure or true than just regular and healthy and sober?

Personally I cannot help but think that man wants to be part of something greater, and that altering ones own perceptions makes this an easy jump. Everything seems a little bit off, things that shouldn't add up start to, and so this seems to explain the vague and mysterious part. But... that doesn't make it true, and this blind acceptance worries me.
 

nanook

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well, why not? because god does not talk to you in full sentences, unless you are crazy, in which case the full sentences dont make that much sense either. no one is granted full insight into the vast world of forms and functions. so you have no choice, in order to align youself with the powers that be, other than following the tiny weird intuitive hints that are given in form of symbols or whatever. speculating is nice, but does not give you alignment, hence does not give you power. shamanism is internal empiric science. making a solid complete world view out of it (filling gaps with concepts/speculations), is not the real deal, at best its a byproduct.

now unlike original shamans, modern man has different methodologies (since they have books and internet). you can only arrive at a complete coherent worldview by using the integral methodology, which includes the listening to our inner voice but adds comparative left hand methodologies, like reading books from the Perennial philosophy. speculations based on this are informed by the introspective voices of all the "shamans" in history, so they are more than just guess work.

but in a postmodern world "of lies" (a word where everyone is entitled to any arbitrary "opinion" on anything) many new internet shamans have no trust in that approach. they say funny things like "maybe there is no truth". i disagree with them, but that's the way a lot of them are. that also how you feel after chatting with an alien, i can tell. either that or you say: the aliens are the true truth above all. (oh, my...)


enlightenment (nonduality, awakening) is not an altered state, it is that which includes all states.

but encountering aliens on dmt or something - well i like to call that: samsara, world of illusions, but my experience is limited.
but since such states are subtle or causal they are closer to non-duality.
that is to say, they are less of a 'specific state' than the rational left brained everyday science mind, that you consider the "normal" state.

when we validate shamanic wisdom, it is irrelevant what an angel is, if it is something that works the way it is observed to work. it may represent DNA, or the human brain, or jesus, or something on a different plane/dimension or aliens that take care of us. but as long as you can have a sort of a behavioral dialog with it, like an almost incomprehensible right brain-ish dance, that leads to a predictable result, its all the same.
 

nanook

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Last edited:

INTJ123

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Why not? Why does it need to be vague and mysterious? It's like ghosts, aliens, and ESP - people will provide steadfast accounts of seeing them happen, offer blurry photographs, have dreams, etc., but it all vanishes when actually brought forward to be held accountable with tangible evidence. Are supernatural events.. shy?

Heck, I'm not opposed to these things existing. I'd like to see aliens. I'd enjoy learning about ghosts. I would really like to be part of some giant cosmic collective with some sort of karmic scale. But.. where is it?

You brought up perspective. I think it's a good point to touch upon. My experience is that people who bring up cosmic energy and unity of the universe and such are generally not a 'normal' state when they come across these revelations. Either forceful alteration (drugs) or self-impairment (sleep) seem to be key. How is this altered state somehow more pure or true than just regular and healthy and sober?

Personally I cannot help but think that man wants to be part of something greater, and that altering ones own perceptions makes this an easy jump. Everything seems a little bit off, things that shouldn't add up start to, and so this seems to explain the vague and mysterious part. But... that doesn't make it true, and this blind acceptance worries me.

once again I am going to post my "tangible evidence" and before you say it's fake or some bs I challenge you to actually DO IT yourself before coming to any conclusion. This is the result of energy transfer/prayer/intention directing. Maybe you've already seen it but I'll just post it again to illustrate the positive and negative energies that we can make use of ourselves.


picture.php

yin_yang.jpg
 

Feops

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once again I am going to post my "tangible evidence" and before you say it's fake or some bs I challenge you to actually DO IT yourself before coming to any conclusion.

Jars...?

well, why not? because god does not talk to you in full sentences, unless you are crazy, in which case the full sentences dont make that much sense either. no one is granted full insight into the vast world of forms and functions. so you have no choice, in order to align youself with the powers that be, other than following the tiny weird intuitive hints that are given in form of symbols or whatever. speculating is nice, but does not give you alignment, hence does not give you power. shamanism is internal empiric science. making a solid complete world view out of it, is not the real deal, at best its a byproduct.

now unlike original shamans, modern man has different methodologies (since they have books and internet). you can only arrive at a complete coherent worldview by using the integral methodology, which includes the listening to our inner voice but adds comparative left hand methodologies, like reading books from the Perennial philosophy. speculations based on this are informed by the introspective voices of all the "shamans" in history, so they are more than just guess work.

but in a postmodern world "of lies" many new internet shamans have no trust in that approach. they say funny things like "maybe there is no truth". i disagree with them, but that's the way a lot of them are. that also how you feel after chatting with an alien, i can tell. either that or you say: the aliens are the true truth above all. (oh, my...)

These are words here, and I know what each word means, but strung together like this I can't make sense of what you're attempting to say. Sorry.
 

INTJ123

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Rice Hado Experiment from the book "The True Power of Water" by Masaru Emoto. The experiment starts with two jars of white rice. On one I write "You Fool!" on the other I write "Thank You!", then for about a month I pick each up and say the words to the jars of rice(Direct my energy and intention towards). This was the result, exactly as predicted by emoto.

You don't have to use those specific words, I was actually saying F^ck you, I hate you, and a bunch of negative crap to the negative jar and I was saying bunch of positive stuff like I love you, thank you, you're so great ect. to positive jar. The point is to direct positive and negative energies.


Heres a pic from his book. I know it sounds silly, trust me I was skeptical myself, but after DOING it, I had a change of heart.
picture.php
 

Feops

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Rice Hado Experiment from the book "The True Power of Water" by Masaru Emoto. The experiment starts with two jars of white rice. On one I write "You Fool!" on the other I write "Thank You!", then for about a month I pick each up and say the words to the jars of rice(Direct my energy and intention towards). This was the result, exactly as predicted by emoto.

This takes a month, you say?
 

INTJ123

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This takes a month, you say?

sometimes shorter sometimes longer, if you want the fastest results, you better give a lot of love and talk a lot of shit. and it helps if you mean it when you say it, it'll work a lot faster the more emotional content you give it, I see a lot of half asked hate and love on some people's experiments and it takes longer.

if you want you can do the updated experiment with a third jar that you ignore.
ignore = no energy, worse than negative energy.

or maybe you can just ignore one jar and give positive energy to one jar, that seemed to get the fastest results for this other experiment I saw. Her's worked in a week but she was using a different method to give energy instead of prayer/words, she was using reiki or whatever, it's one of those bio energy healing techniques but yea still positive energy.

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sbzCaEsHfw"][YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sbzCaEsHfw"][/YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]
 

Amargith

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Interesting...so..bad energy is still energy and ignoring is worse?

Kinda makes sense. A child, person or animal deprived of attention will welcome any form of attention, even if it is negative and will even seek it out. The only time ignoring someone doesn't work is when their behavior does not find its reward in your attention.

This then makes me wonder about cursing, hexing, and generally sending bad energy in someones way. It tends to be self-destructive (as you fill yourself with that rage and negativity to do so), as well as supposedly harmful for the person you're sending it to. Ignoring wouldn't hold those risks, and is potentially, in some cases, more efffective, it would appear.

*ponders*
 

Alwar

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Interesting...so..bad energy is still energy and ignoring is worse?

I think there is a famous quote about how ignoring someone is the ultimate form of disrespect, but cannot recall the exact words or who said it. :(
 
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