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  1. #11
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    if you talk to the kosmos you are not like: "hey kosmos, if you don't tell me in detail how you would punish me for betraying your will (please attach potographs), then i won't believe that you are serious about it" unless you really want to find out.
    Why not? Why does it need to be vague and mysterious? It's like ghosts, aliens, and ESP - people will provide steadfast accounts of seeing them happen, offer blurry photographs, have dreams, etc., but it all vanishes when actually brought forward to be held accountable with tangible evidence. Are supernatural events.. shy?

    Heck, I'm not opposed to these things existing. I'd like to see aliens. I'd enjoy learning about ghosts. I would really like to be part of some giant cosmic collective with some sort of karmic scale. But.. where is it?

    You brought up perspective. I think it's a good point to touch upon. My experience is that people who bring up cosmic energy and unity of the universe and such are generally not a 'normal' state when they come across these revelations. Either forceful alteration (drugs) or self-impairment (sleep) seem to be key. How is this altered state somehow more pure or true than just regular and healthy and sober?

    Personally I cannot help but think that man wants to be part of something greater, and that altering ones own perceptions makes this an easy jump. Everything seems a little bit off, things that shouldn't add up start to, and so this seems to explain the vague and mysterious part. But... that doesn't make it true, and this blind acceptance worries me.

  2. #12
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    well, why not? because god does not talk to you in full sentences, unless you are crazy, in which case the full sentences dont make that much sense either. no one is granted full insight into the vast world of forms and functions. so you have no choice, in order to align youself with the powers that be, other than following the tiny weird intuitive hints that are given in form of symbols or whatever. speculating is nice, but does not give you alignment, hence does not give you power. shamanism is internal empiric science. making a solid complete world view out of it (filling gaps with concepts/speculations), is not the real deal, at best its a byproduct.

    now unlike original shamans, modern man has different methodologies (since they have books and internet). you can only arrive at a complete coherent worldview by using the integral methodology, which includes the listening to our inner voice but adds comparative left hand methodologies, like reading books from the Perennial philosophy. speculations based on this are informed by the introspective voices of all the "shamans" in history, so they are more than just guess work.

    but in a postmodern world "of lies" (a word where everyone is entitled to any arbitrary "opinion" on anything) many new internet shamans have no trust in that approach. they say funny things like "maybe there is no truth". i disagree with them, but that's the way a lot of them are. that also how you feel after chatting with an alien, i can tell. either that or you say: the aliens are the true truth above all. (oh, my...)


    enlightenment (nonduality, awakening) is not an altered state, it is that which includes all states.

    but encountering aliens on dmt or something - well i like to call that: samsara, world of illusions, but my experience is limited.
    but since such states are subtle or causal they are closer to non-duality.
    that is to say, they are less of a 'specific state' than the rational left brained everyday science mind, that you consider the "normal" state.

    when we validate shamanic wisdom, it is irrelevant what an angel is, if it is something that works the way it is observed to work. it may represent DNA, or the human brain, or jesus, or something on a different plane/dimension or aliens that take care of us. but as long as you can have a sort of a behavioral dialog with it, like an almost incomprehensible right brain-ish dance, that leads to a predictable result, its all the same.

  3. #13
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    don't mean to ridicule the topic. i just love this shaman (both of them):

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1jmhbw3JHw"]Scrumdiddlyumptious[/YOUTUBE]


    i searched my google reader account for "modern shamanism" and came up with these links, among random stuff

    Integral Options Cafe: Creative Spirituality: The Meta-Shaman
    Integral Options Cafe: How Culture and Consciousness Intertwine

  4. #14
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feops View Post
    Why not? Why does it need to be vague and mysterious? It's like ghosts, aliens, and ESP - people will provide steadfast accounts of seeing them happen, offer blurry photographs, have dreams, etc., but it all vanishes when actually brought forward to be held accountable with tangible evidence. Are supernatural events.. shy?

    Heck, I'm not opposed to these things existing. I'd like to see aliens. I'd enjoy learning about ghosts. I would really like to be part of some giant cosmic collective with some sort of karmic scale. But.. where is it?

    You brought up perspective. I think it's a good point to touch upon. My experience is that people who bring up cosmic energy and unity of the universe and such are generally not a 'normal' state when they come across these revelations. Either forceful alteration (drugs) or self-impairment (sleep) seem to be key. How is this altered state somehow more pure or true than just regular and healthy and sober?

    Personally I cannot help but think that man wants to be part of something greater, and that altering ones own perceptions makes this an easy jump. Everything seems a little bit off, things that shouldn't add up start to, and so this seems to explain the vague and mysterious part. But... that doesn't make it true, and this blind acceptance worries me.
    once again I am going to post my "tangible evidence" and before you say it's fake or some bs I challenge you to actually DO IT yourself before coming to any conclusion. This is the result of energy transfer/prayer/intention directing. Maybe you've already seen it but I'll just post it again to illustrate the positive and negative energies that we can make use of ourselves.




  5. #15
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJ123 View Post
    once again I am going to post my "tangible evidence" and before you say it's fake or some bs I challenge you to actually DO IT yourself before coming to any conclusion.
    Jars...?

    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    well, why not? because god does not talk to you in full sentences, unless you are crazy, in which case the full sentences dont make that much sense either. no one is granted full insight into the vast world of forms and functions. so you have no choice, in order to align youself with the powers that be, other than following the tiny weird intuitive hints that are given in form of symbols or whatever. speculating is nice, but does not give you alignment, hence does not give you power. shamanism is internal empiric science. making a solid complete world view out of it, is not the real deal, at best its a byproduct.

    now unlike original shamans, modern man has different methodologies (since they have books and internet). you can only arrive at a complete coherent worldview by using the integral methodology, which includes the listening to our inner voice but adds comparative left hand methodologies, like reading books from the Perennial philosophy. speculations based on this are informed by the introspective voices of all the "shamans" in history, so they are more than just guess work.

    but in a postmodern world "of lies" many new internet shamans have no trust in that approach. they say funny things like "maybe there is no truth". i disagree with them, but that's the way a lot of them are. that also how you feel after chatting with an alien, i can tell. either that or you say: the aliens are the true truth above all. (oh, my...)
    These are words here, and I know what each word means, but strung together like this I can't make sense of what you're attempting to say. Sorry.

  6. #16
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    Rice Hado Experiment from the book "The True Power of Water" by Masaru Emoto. The experiment starts with two jars of white rice. On one I write "You Fool!" on the other I write "Thank You!", then for about a month I pick each up and say the words to the jars of rice(Direct my energy and intention towards). This was the result, exactly as predicted by emoto.

    You don't have to use those specific words, I was actually saying F^ck you, I hate you, and a bunch of negative crap to the negative jar and I was saying bunch of positive stuff like I love you, thank you, you're so great ect. to positive jar. The point is to direct positive and negative energies.


    Heres a pic from his book. I know it sounds silly, trust me I was skeptical myself, but after DOING it, I had a change of heart.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJ123 View Post
    Rice Hado Experiment from the book "The True Power of Water" by Masaru Emoto. The experiment starts with two jars of white rice. On one I write "You Fool!" on the other I write "Thank You!", then for about a month I pick each up and say the words to the jars of rice(Direct my energy and intention towards). This was the result, exactly as predicted by emoto.
    This takes a month, you say?

  8. #18
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feops View Post
    This takes a month, you say?
    sometimes shorter sometimes longer, if you want the fastest results, you better give a lot of love and talk a lot of shit. and it helps if you mean it when you say it, it'll work a lot faster the more emotional content you give it, I see a lot of half asked hate and love on some people's experiments and it takes longer.

    if you want you can do the updated experiment with a third jar that you ignore.
    ignore = no energy, worse than negative energy.

    or maybe you can just ignore one jar and give positive energy to one jar, that seemed to get the fastest results for this other experiment I saw. Her's worked in a week but she was using a different method to give energy instead of prayer/words, she was using reiki or whatever, it's one of those bio energy healing techniques but yea still positive energy.

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sbzCaEsHfw"][YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sbzCaEsHfw"][/YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

  9. #19
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Interesting...so..bad energy is still energy and ignoring is worse?

    Kinda makes sense. A child, person or animal deprived of attention will welcome any form of attention, even if it is negative and will even seek it out. The only time ignoring someone doesn't work is when their behavior does not find its reward in your attention.

    This then makes me wonder about cursing, hexing, and generally sending bad energy in someones way. It tends to be self-destructive (as you fill yourself with that rage and negativity to do so), as well as supposedly harmful for the person you're sending it to. Ignoring wouldn't hold those risks, and is potentially, in some cases, more efffective, it would appear.

    *ponders*
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  10. #20
    The Architect Alwar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Interesting...so..bad energy is still energy and ignoring is worse?
    I think there is a famous quote about how ignoring someone is the ultimate form of disrespect, but cannot recall the exact words or who said it.

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