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Debunking those atheists, the smart way!

Eruca

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:huh: Your last line doesn't even make sense.

I never said atheists aren't moral. In fact, I stated the exact opposite. I believe atheists are more often than not moral individuals (when using the colloquial definition of today's age).

I asserted that the linguistic definition originated from the church to refer to something purely theological. Read closer.

So just to clarify, do you believe theists are any more moral than atheists on average?
 

Tamske

Writing...
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I friggin hate this bullshit assertion - "If you don't believe in God then you have nothing to base your morals on".

So personal ethos are insufficient to make a decent human being?

^ and where do personal ethos come from? :D

My precious mind.

^ Aah yes. But how did it get in there?

Evolved.

And now that I figured out that multi-quote to make my previous post understandable, I'm going to try to delete that previous post, replacing it with this one...
Edit: succeeded.
 

LEGERdeMAIN

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So just to clarify, do you believe theists are any more moral than atheists on average?

^ not directed at me, but: I don't believe that that theists are any more moral, in fact, I've found that theists of the local variety(primarily protestant christian) tend to be much more immoral. (Moral in the commonly used sense of the word[colloquial]) More likely to be racist(regardless of race), more likely to have casual sex(jesus doesn't care what you do as long as you accept him as your personal saviour or savior and you're not doing people of your own sex and you don't have abortions or kill old ladies), more likely to disregard the teachings of the new or old testaments, more likely to get into fist fights about who's god is better, more likely to segregate themselves from undesirables(in complete contradiction to life and teachings of hey zeus), etc, etc.....

btw, the most immoral groups I've experienced are wiccans, thelemites and jews.
 

BlueinGreen

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I friggin hate this bullshit assertion - "If you don't believe in God then you have nothing to base your morals on".

So personal ethos are insufficient to make a decent human being? One must believe in God, specifically fear God and God's damnation in order to be a decent human being, and not a berserk baby eater?

What would modern Christianity be without a fear of hell anyway? I'm guessing churches' tithing income wouldn't be nearly as high.

It's funny, because it means that Christians must not believe in the intrinsic moral value of not roasting children over a fire. If find it utterly ridiculous.

A relevant quote:

"A person's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. People would indeed be in a poor way if they had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
- Albert Einstein
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
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^ I know you know that I'm steering away from the original argument. I just want to get to the roots of where personal ethos come from. Surely it wouldn't pop up in your mind from out of nowhere.

why not?
the idea of god had to pop into someone's head [seemingly] from nowhere.

a prophet has no explanation for his visions, he just knows what he experienced.

how is that any different from developing a personal value system?



the truth is that it doesn't matter where it comes from, as long as it's there.
it's good to see someone researching a method alternative to god's irrational creed, one way or another.
 

Yloh

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Yeah, eating babies is wrong. Unless God tells you to...

“And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat” (Leviticus 26:29).
“And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them” (Deuteronomy 28:57).
“And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend” (Jeremiah 19:9).

Ummm, I know where you are going at with this, but that is NOT what those verses are saying. I hate it when people get a scripture and bring it WAY out of context. :steam: Both Christians and Atheist are guilty of this. Please, read the whole section and understand what is truly going on before you use a verse to make a point. :coffee:

Read

Leviticus 26: 14-39 Conditions and Results of Disobedience

Deuteronomy 28: 15-68 Promised Curses for Disobedience

Jeremiah 19: 1-15 Sigh of the Broken Flask


:rofl1:

I like mine slow cooked over an open a fire. :D How do you like yours?

Anyways, I don't think this baby example is a good way to explain why Atheist are the way they are. I also don't think this thread was meant to be taken seriously :doh:, but it this is a serious topic.

People are justifiable creatures. We have to justify what we do, so we can do what we do with confidence. Atheists have a reason why they are Atheists and Christians have a reason why they are Christians. Muslims have a reason why they are Muslims and Buddhists have a reason why they are Buddhists. You get the point, so I'll stop.
 

The Decline

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I must say, the idea that morals can only be sourced from the idea of god from an ancient text is quite laughable. This doesn't discourage my own effort to conjure a personal idea of god for my own use, I just don't think that it has anything to do with morals or values. Such things are of my own invention because, very simply, I believe certain things to be "wrong", most often relying on the idea that such things lead to destruction of order.

Oh my, am I confusing those who wish to draw lines between believers and atheists? Hopefully so.
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
I must say, the idea that morals can only be sourced from the idea of god from an ancient text is quite laughable. This doesn't discourage my own effort to conjure a personal idea of god for my own use, I just don't think that it has anything to do with morals or values. Such things are of my own invention because, very simply, I believe certain things to be "wrong", most often relying on the idea that such things lead to destruction of order.

Oh my, am I confusing those who wish to draw lines between believers and atheists? Hopefully so.

Fuh fuh fuh.
 

Usehername

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So just to clarify, do you believe theists are any more moral than atheists on average?

If moral is only something to do with the church, then atheists and morals are completely bifurcating ideas, i.e. atheists couldn't be anything but amoral (note: the prefix "a" means "without"; it is not, in any way, a judge on someone's morality "level").

If moral is a judge of character, then yes, many religious people have terrible morals, and many atheists have upstanding morals.

It depends on the definition! That's all I was trying to say, lol.
 

Blank

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Ummm, I know where you are going at with this, but that is NOT what those verses are saying. I hate it when people get a scripture and bring it WAY out of context. :steam: Both Christians and Atheist are guilty of this. Please, read the whole section and understand what is truly going on before you use a verse to make a point.

Yeah, without an interpretation by your side on what's "actually" being said in those full quotes, you can't even say that those quotes were used incorrectly--you're just saying they aren't correct with no validation.
 

LEGERdeMAIN

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And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.

And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me; Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins. And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy. And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.
And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcasses upon the carcasses of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savor of your sweet odors. And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it. And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.

All because I didn't keep the Sabbath???

What a prick.
 

Alwar

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