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  1. #71
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    And for the record, L was INTP .
    I'm fully aware of it.

  2. #72
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    When it comes to morality, we argue over the effects of our actions and whether or not we want what those actions bring. That is all it has ever been, at its core. From that basic principle stems every system of behavior/restriction, religious beliefs on morality, society wide concepts of morality, etc. Pick and choose what kind of world you want to live in, consider what actions will lead you there, and you will give birth to morality.

  3. #73
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    You said that the internal moral compass comes from God, but I'm still not clear on what your understanding of morals actually is. Or, how it differs from a secular understanding. In briefly researching the word "morals", it appears to have come from Cicero. Where can I find more information?

    In any case, if god gives morals to all people where is the moral compass of a sociopath? Does he give the same amount of morals to everyone? And if he's giving morals to people, why is it the fault of anyone if they happen to get shorted? And how again, would you explain the fact that life experiences literally act in a way on the brain to translate into behaviors that are more, or less, pro-social(or moral, in the secular sense)?
    In addition to the body's experiences chemically flooding the brain to adapt based off of life experience, you can also assert that temporal lobe epileptics, when they seize, experience "profound religious experiences" which explicates exactly how individuals have the religious experiences that they claim to have. You can reduce everything to biology.

    These questions you have are actually the "does a god exist" debate. No one can prove their beliefs about their answers (atheists or theists).

    Your question about sociopaths is the same question as when people ask, "what about people who don't grow up in places where they could have a chance to hear the gospel? Can they go to heaven?". All of these are Big Questions that have theories but no real answers--just like the field of philosophy has Big Questions with no real answers (if there were real answers, there wouldn't be competing POVs).

    The answer to your questions is basically "there is no guaranteed correct answer" just like atheists who believe morals are purely evolutionary adaptive cannot guarantee that there is no metaphysical explanation.

    There's legitimate scholarship to back up both sets of beliefs; some people choose to crawl into the meaning-making box of religion, some people choose to crawl into the meaning-making box of xyz, everyone's unable to prove their POVs to these Big Questions.

    (I'm not intentionally ducking the question here, but to answer your questions with genuine honesty, it would require explicating my religious foundations upon which these "answers" rest, and honestly I didn't mean to get into the debate here because I simply don't have time, all I meant to say was "linguistically, morals were defined by the church in theological terms" because I thought that I'd be able to make that linguistic reference without getting into any Big Questions.)
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  4. #74
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Unfortunately for the believers, there are no real answers to their metaphysical questions. Chances are, we're just another breast-fed species on an organic spaceship floating through space following Ra eternally. If you do have the "answer" let me know.

    Until then, the best you can do is: figure out what works for you, try not to preach to people who don't want to hear it, not kill other people because they believe something different, start your own religion.

    I have no answers....and I can prove it. Why don't I get a religion?
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  5. #75
    Senior Member The Third Rider's Avatar
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    So according to that article if we get enough peer pressure on atheists they will then try to believe in God? Brilliant!
    ENFJ 3W4

    If you read this I am sorry to say that you just lost 5 seconds of your life that you wont be getting back.*

    *Actual time may vary.

  6. #76
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    I'm half-way believing already
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaybeLogic View Post
    Unfortunately for the believers, there are no real answers to their metaphysical questions. Chances are, we're just another breast-fed species on an organic spaceship floating through space following Ra eternally. If you do have the "answer" let me know.

    Until then, the best you can do is: figure out what works for you, try not to preach to people who don't want to hear it, not kill other people because they believe something different, start your own religion.

    I have no answers....and I can prove it. Why don't I get a religion?
    To know with absolute certainty on either side of this argument, doesn't make very much sense to me.

    Your first statement reminded me of a quote.

    We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special. - Stephen Hawking

  8. #78
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    To know with absolute certainty on either side of this argument, doesn't make very much sense to me.

    Your first statement reminded me of a quote.

    We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special. - Stephen Hawking
    Yeah, without absolute certainty, I can't vote for either side. I mean, if it were a vote, which it isn't.

    yeah, nice quote. I used to listen to stephen hawking's lectures on youtube when I was a kid.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    To know with absolute certainty on either side of this argument, doesn't make very much sense to me.

    Your first statement reminded me of a quote.

    We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special. - Stephen Hawking
    I don't know with absolute certainty that Santa Claus isn't real, but I have no problem living my life as if he doesn't exist.
    Ti = Ne > Fi = Ni > Te = Si > Fe = Se

    "I've never seen a child who didn't want to build something out of blocks, or learn something new, or try the next task. And the only reason why adults aren't like that is, I suppose, that they have been sent to school and other oppressive institutions which have driven that out of them."
    -- Noam Chomsky

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgetful Functor View Post
    I don't know with absolute certainty that Santa Claus isn't real, but I have no problem living my life as if he doesn't exist.
    Sure. Like people that do believe in fictional god(s), and live their lives accordingly. How one lives isn't the point.

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