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  1. #11
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    I don't know if it's the same group or not, but the same thing was done on my campus a couple of years ago.

    I categorize it as a publicity stunt, but I was glad I saw the photos. It didn't change my mind or anything though, just rounded out my views.

    I have this thing about being unflinching and not turning my eyes and heart away from such the ugly side of life, almost to the point where rainbows and butterfly outlook sickens me in the same way some would be disgusted by those photos.
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  2. #12
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    I think that putting them behind a wall is the most appropriate thing to do. First of all, forcing things like that upon the general public will actually take away from the credibility of the pro-life stance, as you witnessed with all of the complaints that were experienced on your campus. It causes people to look at the visceral, exploitative nature of such of an exhibit, thereby taking away from the power of the argument. Giving people a choice to whether or not they want to view the pictures makes your position seem more balanced and less tyrranical.

    Secondly, you have no idea who suffers from things like panic disorders, people who might be triggered or flip out by seeing such a thing, although they themselves have never or would never have an abortion. That's kind of sick and cruel to do that to innocent people.

    Thirdly, some women who have already had abortions suffer from psychological or emotional problems, and randomly forcing grisly pictures of them isn't going help them recover emotionally from what they've gone through. I'd like to remind you that many women choose to have abortions because of desperate situations like extreme youth, poverty, or fear of abuse at the hands of a parent or even the father of a child if they found out the girl was pregnant. Then there are instances of rape, incest, etc. That isn't always the case, but it's wrong to have a mind to "punish" those women when they're already suffering enough trauma from what they've gone through.

    And the ones who aren't traumatized? Well, your pictures aren't going to change their minds anyway.

    I think it's a good idea for people to be thoroughly informed before they make such a serious decision, and it's also a good idea to make the exhibit readily available to young people. However, forcing it on people is distasteful, borderline unethical, and may even turn people against your side instead of opening them up to it.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    My friend Daniel is another ENFJ. We are still a bit different though.

    When a Pro-Life group went on his community college campus (Sac City), they showed aborted fetus pictures in the quad for all to see. This happened at my school (American River) years ago...I was a part of a Speech Class that debated it during the entire two-hour period.

    Dan loved the shock-methodology of the group. He said they had several people come up to them and told them that seeing the pictures changed their minds about abortion and "choice"; that they could never consider doing it after seeing those pictures.

    When this happened at my school, all I heard was stubborn whining and moaning about how offensive the pictures were and how they should be torn down. People ignored the intended message of the pictures and instead focused on how bad the "religious right" was because they were trying to take away people's decision to "choose". I began to see how such a statement, presented as it was, could cast Christinity in a bad light (they are Christians who run it, but they don't say anything religious unless they are asked; it's not like people don't know though). I didn't care that they had dead fetus pics on campus, quite the contrary, I loved that somebody was trying to spread the truth...I just didn't believe in the open-air shock value--that catching somebody offguard right after lunch, by suprise with those images was wrong on some level.

    When people complained, the group was forced to create a walled partition (American River), so people could walk through and see the pictures, but didn't have to do so if they just walked through the open-air quad where the exhibition was. I think this was waaay more appropriate, but probably only reached the people who were brave enough to go in there--perhaps not the intented audience--women who might consider it, or who are going through an unwanted pregnancy, might not want to look.

    So now I'm thinking about siding with Dan--or at least meeting the people who run this chapter of the organization he is now a part of (and, to which, I've forgotten the name; will edit later).

    So, what do you all think?

    Just a note--I have great sympathy for all rape victims, and people whose developing feti are brain damaged (or otherwise damaged/incapacitated), or when there is a serious health issue involved that will risk the life of the mother. I don't make a judgement call on abortion when such issues arise. Even when that's not the case...
    Honestly I'm all about freedom of speach and exposure, and exploitation. I think there should be a warning before the presentation giving a hint as to what is going to been shown. Today's society isn't so closed in anymore, we pretty much like in a vicarious western world. If showing pictures of aborted fetus making an argument more powerful then so be it.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Honestly I'm all about freedom of speach and exposure, and exploitation. I think there should be a warning before the presentation giving a hint as to what is going to been shown. Today's society isn't so closed in anymore, we pretty much like in a vicarious western world. If showing pictures of aborted fetus making an argument more powerful then so be it.
    That's what the wall is. A warning. So they aren't just up on the walls for everyone who walks by to see them.

  5. #15
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    I think most women that have abortions are aware of it not being the most pleasant of things. They wouldn't consider it a desirable situation and don't need to be reminded of the fact.

    There are many meat eaters that don't particularly want to see grisly images of animals being slaughtered for food. But showing them in the hope it will convert people to vegetarianism is manipulative.

    While I'm aware this is a hypocrisy of sorts on my behalf, I believe there are a lot of undesirable yet unavoidable things that occur in society that we know are awful but must be allowed to continue. I don't like that people are having abortions but I believe that they are a necessary evil.

    This sort of stuff shouldn't be inflicted on people against their will. If they want to see those images, then fine, but give them the choice not to.

  6. #16
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    ^ Agreed entirely. I see no reason to put even more disgusting-but-unavoidable things out than absolutely necessary.

    Everytime I see stunts like this, I think "Way to be an insensitive prick."
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  7. #17
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Marmalade stated my point better than I could. Go marmalade! And some wewts for southern kross too. Exclaimation point.

  8. #18
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    We could also show diseased hearts, smokers lungs, young children molested by catholic priests, and chickens getting their heads cut off. Once the shock wears off, you're still presented with a decision of how you feel.

    Its basically just cheap flash marketing without any kind of substance behind it.


    It also stigmatizes those women that got abortions for medical or rape issues.

  9. #19
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    I agree. My friend is going to Berkley pretty soon...I wanted to warn him about the used condoms they're going to throw at him, but he's younger and idealistic--he won't listen until it happens.

    Another interesting trigger--he won't let me meet the people involved. I tried to explain I was just going to ask questions, not give opinions, but he won't introduce me or arrange a meeting to try and convert me to his way of thinking. Plus the group that does this belongs to a paraorganization that is probably difficult to contact and get in touch with.

    Right now, it all screams of "Are you serious?"

    I don't think this helps people. I think having an exhibit that's walled off probably does...because at least then you don't have rape victims who made that decision walking through the Quad and suddenly falling to the ground seizing because the whole thing brings back truma.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    Should soldiers not be shown pictures of bodies burned with white phosphorous?
    Well, just a week or two ago there was a large stink because the AP released photos of a recently dead soldier. The reporter had been present with the squad in battle and witnessed the wounding and subsequent death; all the soldiers present had seen the pictorials before they were sent back to the paper and seemed to approve and understand the relevance of them; but back here people were very quick to raise a stink about how immoral and insensitive the release of these pictures were, yada yada yada. The response both fascinated and disgusted me, because it did not seem to take any context into account but just overlaid the truth of the photographer's feelings and the other soldiers with its own moral preferences.

    Do you want to have the benefits of a choice, but remain ignorant of the actual consequences of that choice?
    Apparently people do, as long as the choice does not impact them directly. Sigh.

    To refuse to look at those pictures is intellectually craven.
    Agreed. To me, it's about accepting responsibility for one's choice. It's just that people are all different and can handle only various degrees of detail (i.e., some pics might be more than enough for some people and too little for others, so now you've really mucked up the more sensitive types).

    Also, public display of pictures where you cannot control who views them and there is no real declaration of what you might run into is unfair to parents with young children, for example, who can't process what the relevance of the pics are and who now might have to deal with disturbed kids. Information has to be targeted.
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