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  1. #21
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I have ended most of my relationships because of this. I am not comfortable in a relationship with someone that is incapable of understanding why I am as honest as I am. And I sure as heck won't fall to any less, not in something as serious to me as a relationship.

    I'm still searching for that person that does appreciate this for this reason. And I'm also a very happy single person in that I do not feel the loss of a relationship. Simply because that is not the kind of relationship I want to be in in the first place.

    Slightly unrelated. I do like sex, but I can go years without just fine as well, apparantly.
    Delicious irony. I have wound up in the same situation, coming at it from the opposite direction.

  2. #22
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    So Tilty, if you ask me if your butt looks big in your pants and instead of answering the truth, I compliment your eyes and on how beautiful you are (and mean that)...do I win? Do I pass?

    *quietly whispers* "The penatant man will pass...the penatant..." --Indiana Jones, QFHGrail
    Love is the point.

  3. #23
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    In terms of business I whole heartedly agree. But I can not bring myself to do this on a personal level. If I was to do this in a relationship. The relationship would be meaningless to me.
    The thing is, there's not actually that big of a difference (at least in terms of structure) between business relationships and personal ones. Both are trades. In fact, you probably put more weight (as in, have more invested) in your personal friendships. So doing things that you know will be negatively received has a direct cost, at least in the context of that goal. Then again, you're saying there's also a cost to factoring in the emotional responses. So you have to weigh those things against each other, I guess. The only argument I'm trying to make is that the first cost I mentioned should definitely be factored into your analysis.

    I do agree that I should probably focus on getting NT friends above others, since it's the only group of people in which there seem to be people appreciating how I am.
    I disagree with this. I know plenty of non-NTs that are much much more blunt than I am, and some that are much less emotionally reactive.

    Don't think of this as a type thing. Analyze relationships on a one to one basis...people have lots of things to offer. Coming up with a formula beforehand just means you cut off your ability to take advantage of opportunity.

  4. #24
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Delicious irony. I have wound up in the same situation, coming at it from the opposite direction.
    Out of curiosity, how would you justify your stance towards prefering someone more tactful then? When you full well know they're really just trying to have sex with you?

    Sorry for putting it this blunt. But that is the thought I am getting from it. If I am missing something else, please fill me in.

    Don't think of this as a type thing. Analyze relationships on a one to one basis...people have lots of things to offer. Coming up with a formula beforehand just means you cut off your ability to take advantage of opportunity.
    Perhaps so, and I never passed interest before based on generalization either. And doubt I will never in the future. That too clashes with my sense of integrity. As I'd feel I'd be limiting to what I know, rather than wanting to step outside of the box in order to experience and learn more.

    So, yeah, I wouldn't pass up an oppertunity if it presented itself. However, I do want to note that it's very likely to be a more common trait amongst fellow NT's. As an observation.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  5. #25
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    I think it's like I've been saying Fluff, it's not about honesty, it's about emotional respect.
    Love is the point.

  6. #26
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    I think it's like I've been saying Fluff, it's not about honesty, it's about emotional respect.
    Hmm, I suppose I just don't understand that. And probably never will.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  7. #27
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Basically, there's a tradeoff between bluntness and tact. Each relationship requires figuring out where in that continuum you're most benefited.

    Clearly, going all the way to the blunt side will cause problems. For example, if you think your friend is ugly, going up to them and saying that to their face out of nowhere accomplishes nothing and cuts off trade options. And going all the way to the tact side is just as bad, because you end up getting walked all over.

    I'm not making an argument for where to decide you fall on the spectrum for a given relationship. I'm just saying, not factoring it in at all is ludicrous.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    So Tilty, if you ask me if your butt looks big in your pants and instead of answering the truth, I compliment your eyes and on how beautiful you are (and mean [I]that[I])...do I win? Do I pass?

    "The penatant man will pass...the penatant...the pe..." --Indiana Jones, QFHGrail
    You pass. Because by your avoidance of answering me directly, I grok that I either need different pants or to knock off the cookies for a couple of days, and am reassured that no matter the size of my butt, you admire other parts of me. I mark this down in my Book of Luv, and 1) the next time you make yourself vulnerable to me, I will be similarly merciful, and 2) it's possible I will do one of the things that you especially like, to let you know that I appreciate you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Out of curiosity, how would you justify your stance towards prefering someone more tactful then? When you full well know they're really just trying to have sex with you?
    Well, in an ideal world, I'm trying to have sex with them, too. Why shouldn't we both be happy? And I can't relax if I'm busy thinking you think my butt's too big.

  9. #29
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Clearly, going all the way to the blunt side will cause problems. For example, if you think your friend is ugly, going up to them and saying that to their face out of nowhere accomplishes nothing and cuts off trade options. And going all the way to the tact side is just as bad, because you end up getting walked all over.
    To me it isn't that clear. If the person understand and respects why I am bluntly honest. That in itself can be appreciated.

    If someone is physically ugly, and it's not something they can do much about, I don't see a reason to mention it to them. If someone dresses bad however for example, I would be blunt and honest about it if they are important to me on a personal level. If not close to me, I probably don't care. :P

    So using the relationship as a point of reference. You and the person that is most important to you. I find that blunt honesty is the best and only course of action. I wouldn't be in the relationship if I didn't want to, which should be enough to know that when I'm painfully blunt, it is not as a means to push them away from me. And that it is merely out of respect for the partner. If that can be appreciated and accepted, I'd be in the relationship of my dreams.

    I use tact towards employees and customers on a daily bases. I'm pretty used to it now, but at first I felt really disrespectful towards them. They don't notice it. They like me. But I felt realy bad about it. It took several years of being in a leadership position for me to really get accustomed to using tact. I think because of my experience using tact. And the disposition I have towards it, may also be a big influencing factor for me as to my stance towards it.

    If I was to sugarcoat something to my partner, she should be well upset, for I would not be respecting her.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  10. #30
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Hmm, I suppose I just don't understand that. And probably never will.
    there is no "honest" answer to the unavoidably subjective nature of human emotion, so how and what you say about these matters only reflects your emotions and a desire to be accurate to them, not a desire to be honest.

    "does this make my butt look big?"

    if you say "yes, it does", you are not being "honest" you are being accurate to your opinion of her ass, and this opinion is what hurts her feelings.

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