User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Transhumanism

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    444

    Default Transhumanism

    What are your opinions about it? Do you think it's part of natural/logical human evolution or the most desperate attempt to combat the inevitability and mystery of death? What would be the consequences/implications of defeating aging?

    If you're not familiar with it:

    Transhumanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Transhumanism: The Most Dangerous Idea?: Why striving to be more than human is human - Reason Magazine

    Videos:

    A brief introduction:
    YouTube - Quest for immortality

    Pro:
    YouTube - Aubrey de Grey: Why we age and how we can avoid it

    Con:
    [GVIDEO="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2615496775977574586#"]Age of Transitions[/GVIDEO]


    ...Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    It's an extremely perverted worldview to say the leaat.

  3. #3
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
    What are your opinions about it?
    I subscribe to this worldview.
    Do you think it's part of natural/logical human evolution or the most desperate attempt to combat the inevitability and mystery of death?
    Both. It will be futile until it can be combated, but if we achieve it, then it will be a part of our evolution. I think it has amazing potential.
    What would be the consequences/implications of defeating aging?
    We might not stop death, but we might at least halt the aging process from ruining our last years and making us hideous and weak during them. That in itself would be an achievement. Human life is already so short in the grand scheme of things, why should our prime be such a short window?

    One implication is that we could possibly have true experts who study their fields for thousands of years. Another is that we'd have to find a way to curb wanton reproduction, but I think the results would be worth it.

  4. #4
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    It's an extremely perverted worldview to say the leaat.
    For religious people, no doubt.

    If I had anything to go on, I'd be researching potential for immortality myself. Ultimatly, aging process is a product of our genetic material. And one has to wonder at what cost that comes. Not from a religious point of view, but from an economic point of view.

    For starters, we had better be colonizing space before we find immortality. Or many a disaster would follow in terms of disease and poverty.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  5. #5
    Senior Member Sacrator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    156

    Default

    I think its a good cause. It could create people with very evolved consciousnesses but that could have its downfalls too. I personally support the research into stopping human aging but i also don't in a way in fear that it could stop evolution and also cause extreme overpopulation. I think humans just need to keep cracking all areas of the human genome and work on more important things like improving every areas of ourselves instead of just one. If anything that should be something considered when we are far progressed in space technology and can easily travel to other planets and have teraforming technology.
    [SIGPIC]http://www.derekrhode.com/MiscHosting/Pics/151645.png[/SIGPIC]

  6. #6
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Socionics
    ENFp
    Posts
    6,075

    Default

    I didn't read up on it too much but I have to weigh in that if people do selective breeding then they will end up with the purebred dog problem.

  7. #7
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    8,193

    Default

    This is a very interesting subject to me. I believe "natural" human evolution has been slowed, if not halted altogether, and the logical extension is to fuse our technological capabilities and our bodies. I see this as an inevitability, because as soon as the technology is available, it will be used and it will represent such a difference in human capability that not electing to take part in augmentation will ensure your demise. It has numerous sociological, philosophical, religious, and technological facets that are fascinating to consider.

    Some breakthroughs that will herald the cyborg/cybernetic age:


    1. The ability of the body to power electrical devices.
    2. The creation of seamless brain to computer information retrieval and/or a "mental" user interface.



  8. #8
    Pose! Salt n' pepper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    2,008

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    This is a very interesting subject to me. I believe "natural" human evolution has been slowed, if not halted altogether, and the logical extension is to fuse our technological capabilities and our bodies. I see this as an inevitability, because as soon as the technology is available, it will be used and it will represent such a difference in human capability that not electing to take part in augmentation will ensure your demise. It has numerous sociological, philosophical, religious, and technological facets that are fascinating to consider.

    Some breakthroughs that will herald the cyborg/cybernetic age:


    1. The ability of the body to power electrical devices.
    2. The creation of seamless brain to computer information retrieval and/or a "mental" user interface.
    This is already a fact. I watched a report on 60 minutes about this subject. This paralyzed man was able to communicate, control, basically live through a computer with his brain. To add to your list, I think medicine will do a lot of breakthroughs, such as regeneration of the human body. We can already regenerate parts of the human body.

  9. #9
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    8,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salt n' pepper View Post
    This is already a fact. I watched a report on 60 minutes about this subject. This paralyzed man was able to communicate, control, basically live through a computer with his brain. To add to your list, I think medicine will do a lot of breakthroughs, such as regeneration of the human body. We can already regenerate parts of the human body.
    I am more talking about software, and mental aspects of fusing brain cognition with technical function. For example, once cognition and information processing is understood from a neurological standpoint, you can begin to perfect interfacing with computer software. I have seen stuff like that too, quadriplegics operating mouse pointers on computers, stuff like that, but it is still very much in it's infancy. In my example, there is no mouse. Computer functions would be tied to thought as easily as moving an extremity.

    If you had any article about this specific case I'd love to see it.



  10. #10
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    3w4?
    Posts
    1,238

    Default

    Several things; in terms of human evolution stalling, it's hardly the case, even int he last few hundred years we've seen substantial changes, for example, those of us who live in north america are primarily derived from europe... thing is the europeans we descended from were on average about 8-10 inches shorter. In other areas, such as sweden, height has vastly increased, even within the last few generations alone, children are on average a full foot taller than their grandparents these days in that locale.

    Now, that being said, we can move onto biological enhancement; obviously this's being done already. Within the last little bit we've even just recently developed in canada, a way to transform fat cells into behaving as stem cells, which will suddenly allow stem cell research to progress at a rapid pace with easy access to material (liposuction for science!), and note that this process actually is much faster (2 weeks growth time) than the older method of 'real' stem cells (2-3 months). With this, being able to correct things like spinal cord injuries shall likely become very simple to do in the near future.

    Next off, we can move onto the technological aspect of immortality... computerized backups of ourselves. This may sound to be in the realm of science fiction, though it's actually probably only maybe 40-50 years off. We have alot of far more complex technologies available than most people're aware of. Things like multistate transistors could revolutionize the processing speed of computers many times over, where 1 bit could contain as much information as 2-3 current ones, but be able to transfer that information at the same speed as a standard binary bit, which would allow for sending information to be far faster in theory than even the human brain is capable of, as our brains operate in the standard binary method for the most part with some exceptions. With far more research being done into neural links and growth, (there was a study done recently which used a rat's neurons on a petri dish to control a robot through electrical impulses, and showed growth and stimulation at learning) it really literally won't be very long before a brain will be capable of interacting with a computer directly. The 'computers' that will be used for this, however, will most likely use newer technology which's being held back from mainstream computers due to incompatability issues (such as multistate transistors), since whot works in a computer NOW is neccesary... we've boxed ourselves in technologically when it comes to computers, since we can't allow all our previous data and programs to become obsolete with the advent of newer, more advanced technology, so many of our current 'better' technologies in the way of computers, are off collecting dust, because they can't be made to work with the stuff we have right now. That being said, if we weren't concerned about having these interact directly with our current computers, (ie we're only using them to store information on brain data) then the progress to this end is far closer than one would expect compared to a traditional PC or laptop. It's estimated this'll take approximately 40-50 years at this point, but a few random breakthroughs could push this timeframe much faster unexpectedly.

    Lastly though, we do have the religious aspect in and of itself. For the desire to make oneself better physically? Of course, why wouldn't we? It only makes sense to, and to be perfectly blunt, the people who're insistant on the silly notion that "we should not play god", have no clue whot they're talking about. Even in most of the holy texts, such is actually ENCOURAGED.

    For example Matthew 21:18-22, which can be easily interpreted to be the prediction of the advances of technology and potentially psychic powers (which honestly does sound a bit science-fictionyish, apparantly that genre's been around for longer than we thought).

    There's a fair number of these types of passages however, which state that humans will one day be nearly on par with God himself, now whether these are just "we like to think we're better than we are", or if they're more substantial, who knows, but we are in fact headed that way rather quickly.

    All things known considered, we can at least state that human nature is to improve oneself, one's environment, and manipulate all things around and within us to better service our own desires and ambitions. As it is literally our very nature to change ourselves for the better, with whichever means and tools we have neccesary, this kind of development along these lines should be viewed as in fact natural to us. It's no different than a rock, a bow, a car, et cetera. To go against this would be to take the amish's point of view, and really there is literally no difference here at all. The line being drawn is not a solid line, it's not even a thin, or dotted line, but completely imaginary to match their own pretensious beliefs.

    Now, that being said, there will always be those who resist change, change and difference is scarry, fear of the unknown, fear of things yeu don't understand, fear of becomming 'less' than yeurself, or 'less human'. There is the possibility that such could occur, in the early stages of development, unfortunately. There are strong possibilities that the first few prototypes of such could lock one's mind forever in static process, never able to learn or become better... trapped to never be more than it once was. Which would keep yeu literally the same as yeu were, yeur personality intact, and yeur mind identical, with no risk of the growth that instill such fear.

    However, later iterations, where the mind can continue to expand and learn, grow and prosper, for centuries... can teach us much as well.

    There are problems on both sides however.

    A short lifespan can give way to new ideas and methods of looking at things. See even those who are elderly today, their minds do not grasp new concepts in nearly the same level of ease, new ideas and ways of thinking of things are often far too difficult... rapid generations with advanced education can learn quickly, and make new and better use of the technology learned.

    At the same time, however, this is a double edged sword, and it does very much so swing both ways. In this case, we also have the issue that a longer lifespan, leaves more time TO learn... consider if da vinci existed today, with the total culmination of all information up to this point, whot could he do with it? The capacity to see new information and correlate it to older information is important, as is the differing perspectives... by always changing to a new generation, we also deprive ourselves of older perspectives, which may have provided a wealth of knowledge that is now overlooked due to the differing methods.

    Then again, we can go back to the first once more. Without short lived generations, true progress can never occur either. Think of the quote that "it takes 20 years for a liberal's ideas to be considered conservative thinking". A generation being roughly 20 years, each new generation tends to imply new ideals, and understanding. 20 years from now gay rights will probably be an assumed concept and those who were against it will seem as quaint and foolish as those who barred black's rights, women's rights, and so on. Only by removing the previous generation from the picture, and placing a new one which had to learn through it, will we progress fully.

    If we *DID* suddenly, and magically, create immortality... consider the ramifications it would have socially. We would cease our progress as a whole. Liberal thought would be flattened, and conservative views would hold too much sway... currently we're at a healthy medium; liberal thought creates new ideas, but is tempered by conservative mindset to prevent waste and limit offshoots into worthless endeavours. To heavily overbalance one side or the other is to invite disaster, as both must be maintained.

    So although I don't think we're too far off from developing a form of immortality, I do however believe that we are NOT ready for it just yet. The social structuring which would be required to impliment it properly, without destroying us as a whole, is dangerous, as it's going to cause riots no matter whot yeu do. It could be the single worst thing to happen to civilization as a whole if improperly handled, and considering most people won't know how to handle it, and the ones least capable of handling it will be the ones most likely to be in charge of such... well... we'll see how things go, but I can't see it going over too well sadly.

Similar Threads

  1. Artificial Intelligence Rights, Cosmic Destiny, Transhumanism, and Robosexuality
    By The Wailing Specter in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-29-2016, 09:58 AM
  2. Transhumanism
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-14-2015, 08:41 PM
  3. Transhumanism: 5 questions for you
    By Olm the Water King in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 11-05-2014, 06:41 AM
  4. Would you become transhuman?
    By Hate in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 91
    Last Post: 04-03-2012, 08:09 AM
  5. [Other] My 82 year old grandmother is a transhuman
    By ocean in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-10-2010, 04:06 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO