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MBTI type and belief in god

S

Sniffles

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Hmm...well thanks for this.

I'd like to say that I'll read up more on Coomaraswamy, but I'm notoriously lazy. I find that I don't tend to learn much if the content is too thick unless I am in a structured environment that forces me to do so.

That's understandable. I will be honest that much of what Coomaraswamy talks about is very difficult to understand at first, but little by little it becomes more clear. FWIW, here's Rama's piece "The Desacralization of Hinduism for Western Consumption", which underlines many of the misinterpretations presented to Westerners of Hindu practices.
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
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That's understandable. I will be honest that much of what Coomaraswamy talks about is very difficult to understand at first, but little by little it becomes more clear. FWIW, here's Rama's piece "The Desacralization of Hinduism for Western Consumption", which underlines many of the misinterpretations presented to Westerners of Hindu practices.

Thanks. As with anything of this nature, I'll be digesting it very slowly.
 

RaptorWizard

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Then why even believe in a creator-god?

A Creator God as in the one who designed this miserable matrix? I suppose to not believe in such a thing would be perfectly rational.

A Creator God as in the one who rules a galactic super civilization? Now that I believe to be scientifically plausible and possible.

Of course, perhaps both Gods exist, or perhaps none exist. We don't have enough information to make a definite judgment.
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
And so we conclude that Art is superior to religion.
Art is about beauty, and we all know that beauty shall save the world. Beauty is nothing less than the splendor of truth. For there is no beauty save the beauty of God. Every beauty belongs to God, for it is his beauty. Beauty is the internalizing of truth, for the Kingdom of God is within you.

In other words Victor, you're wrong!
 

Tallulah

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INTP, former Christian--now agnostic atheist. I had experiences I considered proof of God at the time. When I left my religion, my eyes became opened to how I'd had spiritual experiences/confirmations based on things that I now know for a fact are not true, so I lost the ability to trust in good feelings to steer me towards what's real or not real. If I can generate "truth" feelings based on things that are historically proven to be made up (specifically pertaining to my religion), I can generate truth feelings on almost anything I want to believe in.

I don't think we can know God, if he/she exists. Our proof is all based on feelings, out-of-body experiences for some, coincidences, dreams/visions, and texts that are considered sacred. Just because someone wrote a book about Jesus or Mohammed doesn't mean it's a "true" book. It's just a book. All of these things are purely subjective. The more I read about the origins of religion in general, and of the need humans have to create a framework of safety, justice, meaning and comfort, the more I see God as a creation of Man, not vice versa. I think there may be some sort of "god energy" out there, but that's really as far as I'm willing to go. If there's a God, no one knows anymore about him or her or it than anyone else does--no one even knows if God is anthropomorphic or not.

I'm definitely not a Christian anymore. Christ may have been a great teacher, but I don't buy the idea that God came down in human form and that we needed him to die for the sins of the world. There's lots of mythology surrounding Christ's life that shares an awful lot of characteristics with other ancient Gods. We've adopted other mythologies to create our own, but our ignorance of those mythologies makes ours seem unique. Christ is not the only being that was born of a virgin, that lived a sinless life, that was tortured to death and resurrected.

I was indoctrinated in religion from the time I was a small kid. My parents' and my adult role models' approval of me was very much tied up in my being a good Christian girl. I believed, I had spiritual experiences, I loved God. But there were always logic cracks. Always things that bothered me, that made no sense. I guess getting close to 40 makes you really examine what is making you happy versus what you're doing out of habit or to please others. Under examination, organized religion quickly got jettisoned. It was a HUGE relief. Soon after went my belief in God and Jesus. That was unexpected and hard at first. But I simply couldn't believe anymore. It didn't make sense. I now live by the Atheist's Wager. If there is a God, he/she will know what kind of person I was and will not expect me to comply to one religion's idea of what is right, nor penalize me for not picking the right one. If there is not a God, I will have lived the kind of life I wanted to live, making the best of my time on earth, rather than laying up treasures in heaven.

So, yeah, my NTness was subjugated to religious indoctrination for many years. My brain is fully mine now, and I love it.
 
S

Sniffles

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[MENTION=6554]DisneyGeek[/MENTION], another wonderful scholar I can suggest is Huston Smith, whose work the World's Religions is often considered a classic in comparative religious studies:
 

Usehername

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I'm definitely not a Christian anymore.

You were still religious a few years ago, right? Or am I misremembering early TypeC days?

--

I'm basically a complete agnostic-atheist 59/60 days of my time, and then about 1/60 days I have a fleeting experience of faith, and I really believe.

So a long time ago I just decided to be a person of faith every day. Hence the CS Lewis quote in my signature.
 

Usehername

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I'm definitely not a Christian anymore.

You were still religious a few years ago, right? Or am I misremembering early TypeC days?

--

I'm basically a complete agnostic-atheist 59/60 days of my time, and then about 1/60 days I have a fleeting experience of faith, and I really believe.

So a long time ago I just decided to be a person of faith every day. Hence the CS Lewis quote in my signature.
 

Tallulah

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You were still religious a few years ago, right? Or am I misremembering early TypeC days?

--

I'm basically a complete agnostic-atheist 59/60 days of my time, and then about 1/60 days I have a fleeting experience of faith, and I really believe.

So a long time ago I just decided to be a person of faith every day. Hence the CS Lewis quote in my signature.


Yeah--the questioning began a few years ago, and then the complete break is somewhat recent.
 

Tallulah

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You were still religious a few years ago, right? Or am I misremembering early TypeC days?

--

I'm basically a complete agnostic-atheist 59/60 days of my time, and then about 1/60 days I have a fleeting experience of faith, and I really believe.

So a long time ago I just decided to be a person of faith every day. Hence the CS Lewis quote in my signature.


Yeah--the questioning began a few years ago, and then the complete break is somewhat recent.
 

Nicodemus

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A Creator God as in the one who rules a galactic super civilization? Now that I believe to be scientifically plausible and possible.
Which steps led you to the conclusion that there is a galactic super civilization and that its ruler is a god?
 

RaptorWizard

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Which steps led you to the conclusion that there is a galactic super civilization and that its ruler is a god?

The Universe (and whatever may exist outside it) is ancient and vast. Surely throughout immensity and eternity life has emerged under all phases of development. We have no idea at what level of advancement some such civilizations may have attained, and if one were sufficiently evolved, perhaps they would be so powerful, that the great wonders they could work would appear to us as divine power, though the question of whether we have ever received extraterrestrial contact is at best speculative.
 

Mole

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Liberation

In other words Victor, you're wrong!

The nice thing about the suspension of disbelief is that it is only a suspension, and that after enjoying the benefits of a particular belief, we return to disbelief.

Another nice thing about the suspension of disbelief is that we can suspend our disbelief about many different religions. We can suspend our disbelief about Hinduism; and we can suspend our disbelief about Roman Catholicism; and we can suspend our disbelief about Islam; we can even suspend our disbelief about Baha'i; not to mention suspending our disbelief of Zeus and Poseidon; and we can even suspend our disbelief in atheism.

Of course the various religions and belief systems are scandalised by the suspension of disbelief in so many - to them it is sacrilegious, illogical, and even promiscuous in the religious sense. And in many parts of the world we are discriminated against and even killed for suspending our disbelief in so many religions. But it is the liberation of the imagination.
 

Mole

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The Universe (and whatever may exist outside it) is ancient and vast. Surely throughout immensity and eternity life has emerged under all phases of development. We have no idea at what level of advancement some such civilizations may have attained, and if one were sufficiently evolved, perhaps they would be so powerful, that the great wonders they could work would appear to us as divine power, though the question of whether we have ever received extraterrestrial contact is at best speculative.

We now know there are more planets than stars so there is a chance there is life on other planets, but the chances of us conducting a conversation are small.
 
S

Sniffles

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But it is the liberation of the imagination.
Seek the truth, for the truth shall set you free. One can only find the truth if they seek understanding. Yet to seek understanding, one must first believe. One must believe in order they may understand. It is the liberation of the Intellect.
 
G

Ginkgo

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Seek the truth, for the truth shall set you free. One can only find the truth if they seek understanding. Yet to seek understanding, one must first believe. One must believe in order they may understand. It is the liberation of the Intellect.

:yay:
 

Aesthete

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INTP sounds like the most reasonable argument until now, though I have some points which would say INTJ. In either case, I'm a Christian. Born a Catholic, but I wouldn't say I agree full-heartedly with all of the doctrine; I have quite a few influences coming from the Gnostics and--to some extent--Pelagianism, though I will admit I haven't studied enough to say anything conclusive.

While I do have certain beliefs of my own, I'm not against the idea of a big church--such as the Catholic one. While I do admit it can be faulty, I do not side with those who dislike the idea per se--those I see as modern, religious anarchists who are extremely proud of themselves for being--in their own little heads--"critical thinkers," while they're exactly the opposite (in a lot of cases).
 

greenfairy

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I understand why you're frustrated, but no single person can change this cultural view that the overwhelming majority of people have. There isn't anything I or any single person can do about this.
No, but each person can speak and behave in a way which is inclusive of different viewpoints. Just like not using language which is derogatory to gay people or something like that. It's not as bad of course, but the same sort of awareness and personal responsibility helps. Like I use gender neutral language when talking about religious matters as much as possible, no matter who I'm talking to- I say "Deity," "Divinity," etc.

True. I don't exactly know how to phrase what I'm trying to say here. There isn't really a reason for them to change it. Plus, I know that the Bible has been changed many times in the past. Often it seems as if this was done for certain people to gain power. Yet, I don't think people would be happy with the Bible being changed today, especially if they do not necessarily agree with the changes.

Also, my response to the below quote is another reason for them not to change this.

Gah, my words aren't coming out right. :shrug:


I think there is disagreement in the community on whether or not the Abrahamic god is actually male. The literalists believe he is, but others believe he is beyond gender. My reason for why the Abrahamic god is male is likely not accepted by the literalists.
No, the people in control of things don't have any reason to change it; but maybe if the culture changes there will be a demand for it eventually. If enough people think about the issue and think that it's a problem, that will happen. You're right, if there is a lot of disagreement in the religions about the point, it will probably be awhile before something gets done. Good point.

My point is more about individuals in everyday life who are not explicitly Christian/Jewish/Muslim; if you don't have a specific reason to think of Deity as a He, it might be worthwhile to think about this fact and try using other language.

This is actually the main reason I stopped being Christian; I didn't like the male emphasis and lack of feminine divine. I admit it felt weird at first to say She, but the more I got used to the idea the more I liked it. It was around this time I started to think I was pagan. Now I'm happy in a spirituality with Divinity represented by both genders.
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
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No, but each person can speak and behave in a way which is inclusive of different viewpoints. Just like not using language which is derogatory to gay people or something like that. It's not as bad of course, but the same sort of awareness and personal responsibility helps. Like I use gender neutral language when talking about religious matters as much as possible, no matter who I'm talking to- I say "Deity," "Divinity," etc.

No, the people in control of things don't have any reason to change it; but maybe if the culture changes there will be a demand for it eventually. If enough people think about the issue and think that it's a problem, that will happen. You're right, if there is a lot of disagreement in the religions about the point, it will probably be awhile before something gets done. Good point.

My point is more about individuals in everyday life who are not explicitly Christian/Jewish/Muslim; if you don't have a specific reason to think of Deity as a He, it might be worthwhile to think about this fact and try using other language.
If simply not using gender neutral pronouns when referring to divinities is this offensive to you, I'd consider growing thicker skin. There is no need to continue carrying on about something so trivial.

Do you get irritated when people use words such as "mankind" as well?

This is actually the main reason I stopped being Christian; I didn't like the male emphasis and lack of feminine divine. I admit it felt weird at first to say She, but the more I got used to the idea the more I liked it. It was around this time I started to think I was pagan. Now I'm happy in a spirituality with Divinity represented by both genders.
This is an extremely poor excuse for logic. I sincerely hope that you meant to write something else.
 
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