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  1. #51
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    ROFL!

    That first link is hilarious. And add me to the list of agnostic NFs.
    "INTP: INTPs are always right, therefore they should skip right to atheism, with an option on immortality as a simulation in a computer of unimaginable complexity at the end of time as proven by the laws of physics."

    Thatís me but instead of a qualified atheist (as noted above) I am a qualified theist. Perhaps one who pisses off more than theists when they talk religion than atheists.

    PS. I didn't get the ďFlying Spaghetti MonsterĒ application to Pascalís Wager but I admit that too it is also a new one. Its to the point where I now feel compelled to sacrifice a meatball to him. Wait I just saw an Unidentified Flying Italian saucer outside!

  2. #52
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ I guess I've jumped the gun by not asking for your definition of God.

    But I believe I did say I was referring to literal/fundamentalist interpretation.

    If you have some other interpretation of God, then fine, but you should probably specify.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #53
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Right, but claiming that the future has zero predictability in any situation whatsoever is completely ridiculous. If you think that, you must be one awfully paranoid person--anything we can imagine happening is equally likely to happen as anything that's already happened, so why don't you get yourself an anti-tiger rock and some tin foil hats?

    After all, you might be abducted by aliens, or eaten by tigers, or abducted AND eaten by tiger/alien hybrids--I know that's never happened to you before, but that's no reason to expect it not to! GET A TIGER ROCK PRONTO!

    Do you think that a skilled gambler could beat you over the long term in a game like poker? Doesn't this obviously prove that reality has at least some degree of predictability, even if not 100%?
    You're missing a point. My expectations have a habit (if not a requirement) of getting satisfied, and because of that habit, I put a lot of faith in my expectations. If my expectations started to fail all the time, then I would really be at sea. This relates to the way that we form beliefs: either through watching a particular outcome several times or (and this is actually a byproduct of the latter) purely on whim. What you've done basically is put the cart before the horse. Expectations are determined by experiences, and only with that as the starting point do things function in the reverse order, with our expectations determining reality for us. And before you accuse me of suggesting that reality is purely what we expect it to be, not to mention a closed loop that could never grow, please do recall that I said our expectations are never satisfied. There's a random, unexpected element that brings in new material, and it's the duty of our expectations to shape our perception of that.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  4. #54
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    I struggle with the concept of God, and all the implications of the subject. I waffle, usually landing on the side of belief. My NF combo does tend to make me more prone to believe in the spiritual, since it feels like a very real probability to me.

    I would not, however, describe myself as a fundamentalist. I suppose I don't view God as much of a fundamentalist, either.
    I think I think more than you think I think.

  5. #55
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    You're missing a point. My expectations have a habit (if not a requirement) of getting satisfied, and because of that habit, I put a lot of faith in my expectations. If my expectations started to fail all the time, then I would really be at sea. This relates to the way that we form beliefs: either through watching a particular outcome several times or (and this is actually a byproduct of the latter) purely on whim. What you've done basically is put the cart before the horse. Expectations are determined by experiences, and only with that as the starting point do things function in the reverse order, with our expectations determining reality for us. And before you accuse me of suggesting that reality is purely what we expect it to be, not to mention a closed loop that could never grow, please do recall that I said our expectations are never satisfied. There's a random, unexpected element that brings in new material, and it's the duty of our expectations to shape our perception of that.
    You are a total INFJ.

    I have lots of experiential evidence to indicate that the probability of a literal conscious entity God's existence is extraordinarily low.

    I can detail them if you really care, but I have a feeling it won't make much of a difference.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #56
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    You are a total INFJ.
    Pray tell why you think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld
    I have lots of experiential evidence to indicate that the probability of a literal conscious entity God's existence is extraordinarily low.

    I can detail them if you really care, but I have a feeling it won't make much of a difference.
    And you don't think a Christian could say the same thing about his beliefs? That's not how it works, Simulated. It's all in our heads, these belief things of ours. I could easily prove that the earth is a giant kidney stone if I wanted to.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  7. #57
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    Pray tell why you think so.

    And you don't think a Christian could say the same thing about his beliefs? That's not how it works, Simulated. It's all in our heads, these belief things of ours. I could easily prove that the earth is a giant kidney stone if I wanted to.
    It's all in our heads, these belief things of ours.

    That's the very definition of Ni, the dominant function of INFJs.

    INFPs display a more externally flexible attitude and base their internal beliefs on more supposed "objective truths" of the universe (Fi); the idea that there is no objective truth and that it's all purely up to interpretation is quite Ni.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    You are a total INFJ.

    I have lots of experiential evidence to indicate that the probability of a literal conscious entity God's existence is extraordinarily low.

    I can detail them if you really care, but I have a feeling it won't make much of a difference.
    Can you put forth this evidence? What about non-physical consciousness?

  9. #59
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    It's all in our heads, these belief things of ours.

    That's the very definition of Ni, the dominant function of INFJs.

    INFPs display a more externally flexible attitude and base their internal beliefs on more supposed "objective truths" of the universe (Fi); the idea that there is no objective truth and that it's all purely up to interpretation is quite Ni.
    I'm an INFP with well-developed Ni, that's all. If you could see how crazily Ne I am, how disorganized and irresponsible I used to be, and how difficult it can be for me to make decisions outside the lofty realms of the head, you would change your mind. Don't forget, either, that we're all actors. We put on one mask only to don a different one. Perhaps I'm an INFJ on Typologycentral, an ISTP when I feed the cat, and an ENTJ while I take a nap. These things aren't set in stone, you know. But this is a digression, so you should probably visit my message wall if you have anything to add to that.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  10. #60
    Senior Member rainoneventide's Avatar
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    Another agnostic NF here. Mostly because:
    "The only thing that we know is that we know nothing, and that is the highest flight of human wisdom."
    - Tolstoy
    "So I say, live and let live. Thatís my motto. Live and let live.
    Anyone who canít go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker."
    - George Carlin

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