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  1. #351
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The highlighted might have some validity with reference to certain manifestations of (pre)historical Paganism, but modern Paganism is quite different, and in many ways more rational and scientific than any form of Christianity. (A large part of why I am a Pagan, BTW.)
    The last Pagan was Hypatia, the librarian of the Great Pagan Library of Alexandria, who discovered the Earth went round the Sun.

    Modern Pagans have no connection with Hypatia or Ancient Pagan Greek philosophy, Pagan Greek mathematics, or Pagan Greek science, or Pagan Greek literature, or Pagan Greek art.

    Modern Pagans are an embarrassment to those who love the last great Pagan, Hypatia, and Ancient Pagan Greek philosophy, mathematics, science, literature and art.

    Modern Pagans are merely part of the New Age superstition, and are all a piece with homeopathy, astrology, alternative medicine and mbti.

  2. #352
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The last Pagan was Hypatia, the librarian of the Great Pagan Library of Alexandria, who discovered the Sun went round the Earth.

    Modern Pagans have no connection with Hypatia or Ancient Pagan Greek philosophy, Pagan Greek mathematics, or Pagan Greek science, or Pagan Greek literature, or Pagan Greek art.

    Modern Pagans are an embarrassment to those who love the last great Pagan, Hypatia, and Ancient Pagan Greek philosophy, mathematics, science, literature and art.

    Modern Pagans are merely part of the New Age superstition, and are all a piece with homeopathy, astrology, alternative medicine and mbti.
    Most "pagan Greek science" should rather be called "materialist Greek science". Democritus for instance, didn't believe in Gods at all. Just like Socrates, they were leaving superstition for the "common man".
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Most "pagan Greek science" should rather be called "materialist Greek science". Democritus for instance, didn't believe in Gods at all. Just like Socrates, they were leaving superstition for the "common man".
    Yes, quite so, my dear Blackmail, the Ancient Greeks were the first to recognise that the Gods were natural forces and so they gave birth to science.

  4. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Yes, quite so, my dear Blackmail, the Ancient Greeks were the first to recognise that the Gods were natural forces and so they gave birth to science.
    And that's precisely why the "paganism" of the ancient mediterranean world had nothing in common with New Age "spirituality". Because the Gods they revered were totally material and not spiritual, almost "real" in a certain sense.

    Hoper edei deixai!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #355
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The last Pagan was Hypatia, the librarian of the Great Pagan Library of Alexandria, who discovered the Earth went round the Sun.

    Modern Pagans have no connection with Hypatia or Ancient Pagan Greek philosophy, Pagan Greek mathematics, or Pagan Greek science, or Pagan Greek literature, or Pagan Greek art.

    Modern Pagans are an embarrassment to those who love the last great Pagan, Hypatia, and Ancient Pagan Greek philosophy, mathematics, science, literature and art.

    Modern Pagans are merely part of the New Age superstition, and are all a piece with homeopathy, astrology, alternative medicine and mbti.
    Most Pagans, and I suspect also most historians, will see things otherwise. I suppose it all comes down to how one defines terms.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #356
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont want to appear insulting to you but I do think that seeking to revive paganism after it has been a dead religion for so long is really mistaken.

    My views on atheism are the same Francis Bacon's that a little philosophy or knowledge inclinth one to atheism but a lot does the opposite.

    http://www.authorama.com/essays-of-f...-bacon-17.html
    Don't worry - I can tell the difference between an insult and simple disagreement. I am curious, though, as to what you consider "mistaken" about modern Pagans. First, Paganism never totally died out, though it was certainly supplanted in many regions first by Judaism, then Christianity and eventually Islam. Hinduism, for instance, has long been the main religion of India, and is essentially that culture's version of Paganism. Same for the spiritual traditions of many indigenous people like the Native American cultures.

    That being said, modern Pagans know better than to attempt to reproduce the religion of millennia ago. Many of us do enjoy the history lesson of studying those times, but with the benefit of modern hindsight, we have far greater understanding of the natural world on many levels than did people in those times, though I do think we have lost some of their understanding. I don't want to derail this thread into another discussion of Paganism. In fact there already is one, if you are really interested in a sampling of what modern Pagans think.

    As for Francis Bacon, the first line of this essay is telling:

    I HAD rather believe all the fables in the Legend, and the Talmud, and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
    He is going into his investigation with a preconception. Far more than a hypothesis, it is what he wants to think. His arguments support this desire, not necessarily following the facts.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #357
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    Default The Heir of Pagan Culture

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Most Pagans, and I suspect also most historians, will see things otherwise. I suppose it all comes down to how one defines terms.
    The historical reality is that it was Christianity in the scriptoriums that keep Ancient Greek Paganism alive.

    And it was out of the Christian scriptoriums that the Renaissance sprung.

    And the Renaissance was the rebirth of Ancient Greek Pagan culture and learning.

    And the Renaissance incorporated Ancient Greek Pagan culture into Christian culture.

    So the heir of Pagan culture is Christianity, not the New Age.

  8. #358
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The historical reality is that it was Christianity in the scriptoriums that keep Ancient Greek Paganism alive.

    And it was out of the Christian scriptoriums that the Renaissance sprung.

    And the Renaissance was the rebirth of Ancient Greek Pagan culture and learning.

    And the Renaissance incorporated Ancient Greek Pagan culture into Christian culture.

    So the heir of Pagan culture is Christianity, not the New Age.
    Greek Paganism is only a small subset of the world's Pagan spiritual paths. It is the scientific and artistic aspects of Greek culture that were preserved in the way you describe. Any spiritual element was not. Even Judaism, the direct precursor of Christianity and the religion of Jesus himself, was not tolerated by the Christian establishment for centuries.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Greek Paganism is only a small subset of the world's Pagan spiritual paths. It is the scientific and artistic aspects of Greek culture that were preserved in the way you describe. Any spiritual element was not. Even Judaism, the direct precursor of Christianity and the religion of Jesus himself, was not tolerated by the Christian establishment for centuries.
    Please! It is Ancient Greek Pagan philosophy that forms the very basis of Western philosophy.

    The spirit of Ancient Greek Pagan philosophy lives in every class of Philosophy 101.

    It is New Age Paganism that is not taught in any University. And it is New Age Paganism that has betrayed the Ancient Paganism, and cheapened it, and relegated it to the status of astrology.

    The last great Pagan, Hypatia, was an astronomer who rejected astrology as a superstition, just as she would reject the New Age Paganism as superstition.

  10. #360
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Please! It is Ancient Greek Pagan philosophy that forms the very basis of Western philosophy.

    The spirit of Ancient Greek Pagan philosophy lives in every class of Philosophy 101.

    It is New Age Paganism that is not taught in any University. And it is New Age Paganism that has betrayed the Ancient Paganism, and cheapened it, and relegated it to the status of astrology.

    The last great Pagan, Hypatia, was an astronomer who rejected astrology as a superstition, just as she would reject the New Age Paganism as superstition.
    More like the philosophy of ancient Greek thinkers, some of whom happened to be Pagans (do we know whether any were even atheists???) We don't characterize people like Kant, Hegel, Rousseau, and Marx as "Christian philosophers". In fact, some were decidedly anti-Christian. A philosopy is not the same as theological doctrine.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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