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  1. #341
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SensEye View Post
    I can tell you there have been multiple polls taken at INTPC over the years. The results are a pretty consistent 70%+ non believers. I can't speak to INTJ trends in this regard. I would think they would be similar, but who knows. Their J-ness might make them more impressionable as youths and less prone to shucking off the standard religious indoctrination that N.A. children typically experience.
    I do think on the whole that NT's tend to be rationalists, and you have to remember most people aren't pagans period. But among pagans, I think NT's are at least as well represented as in the general population if not more; I would say more because most pagans go through a period of questioning the faith they were raised with (if they were at all), and so become agnostics and atheists before finding a spiritual path which is consistent with their rational beliefs and progressive values. There is a prominent coven in the community here which contains a lot of NT's. I can tell you they are not likely mistyped either, as they use typology in the group. One almost had a PhD in philosophy, and another is the dean of science at a local college.

    Ni is more suited to mystic spirituality and holistic thinking on a spiritual level, so that's why I think there are more INTJ's than INTP's.

    INFJ's just tend to be mystics, which covers a large number of categories. I personally draw from most of these, as probably most INFJ's do. I'm certain they are overrepresented in Western exploration of Hindu spirituality.

  2. #342
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Western exploration of Hindu spirituality.
    Hindu spirituality has given India the caste system.

  3. #343
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Hindu spirituality has given India the caste system.
    I think it's a lot more complicated than that.

  4. #344
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    C'mon, the Ancient Romans killed the Christians in the most horrible ways for refusing to worship the Ancient Roman Gods.
    And the Christians in the middle ages tortured and killed anyone they didn't like on pretexts like witchcraft and heresy. Equal opportunity inhumanity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Bubble View Post
    In my opinion extroverted feelers, and extroverts in general will be more likely to believe in a religious god.
    Exactly what is an irreligious god?

    Quote Originally Posted by SensEye View Post
    I can tell you there have been multiple polls taken at INTPC over the years. The results are a pretty consistent 70%+ non believers. I can't speak to INTJ trends in this regard. I would think they would be similar, but who knows. Their J-ness might make them more impressionable as youths and less prone to shucking off the standard religious indoctrination that N.A. children typically experience.
    STJs might be more likely to accept the standard indoctrination of childhood, while NTJs will be more likely to question it. Any NTs are likely to question. I suspect that questioning will lead more NTPs to agnosticism, out of that desire not to form conclusions until all the evidence is in, and the inherent impossibility of that when it comes to God. NTJs are more likely to form at least a working hypothesis, which they will use until contradicted by new evidence. This can lead us either to atheism, or to some alternate spirituality like Paganism.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #345

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    STJs might be more likely to accept the standard indoctrination of childhood, while NTJs will be more likely to question it. Any NTs are likely to question. I suspect that questioning will lead more NTPs to agnosticism, out of that desire not to form conclusions until all the evidence is in, and the inherent impossibility of that when it comes to God. NTJs are more likely to form at least a working hypothesis, which they will use until contradicted by new evidence. This can lead us either to atheism, or to some alternate spirituality like Paganism.
    Are you serious? That sounds like some sort of reflection of popular love of novelty and all things "alternative", to adopt paganism after abandoning Christianity because of doubts arising from criticial appraisal and questioning is ridiculous, Christianity is in many ways the more rational, scientific successor to the primitive and superstitious precursors described as paganism or paganistic.

    Most of that crap is modern revivals for commercial purposes anyway. That's with all due respect for pagans, it'd be a bit like my deciding that popular angels books were true religion Christianity.

  6. #346

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Bubble View Post
    In my opinion extroverted feelers, and extroverts in general will be more likely to believe in a religious god.
    I'd have thought N would have been more important than Extroversion but I am a believer in God, dont know what a religious God is though.

    Jung wrote a lot about his own belief in God, it was probably second to his belief in mandalas, archetypes, complexes and collective unconscious though. His writings are very interesting in those respects, although I will swear that they are mind bending and can have incredible effects on your mind if you're in a receptive frame of mind.

  7. #347
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Are you serious? That sounds like some sort of reflection of popular love of novelty and all things "alternative", to adopt paganism after abandoning Christianity because of doubts arising from criticial appraisal and questioning is ridiculous, Christianity is in many ways the more rational, scientific successor to the primitive and superstitious precursors described as paganism or paganistic.

    Most of that crap is modern revivals for commercial purposes anyway. That's with all due respect for pagans, it'd be a bit like my deciding that popular angels books were true religion Christianity.
    So I take it then that you maintain the opposite of my statement, namely that "This cannot lead NTs either to atheism, or to some alternate spirituality like Paganism."? This makes no sense. I am pointing out in admittedly broad stereotypical strokes how the decision to reject one's childhood faith might play out differently for NTPs vs. NTJs. It says nothing about the many who don't reject that faith.

    The highlighted might have some validity with reference to certain manifestations of (pre)historical Paganism, but modern Paganism is quite different, and in many ways more rational and scientific than any form of Christianity. (A large part of why I am a Pagan, BTW.)
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #348

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    So I take it then that you maintain the opposite of my statement, namely that "This cannot lead NTs either to atheism, or to some alternate spirituality like Paganism."? This makes no sense. I am pointing out in admittedly broad stereotypical strokes how the decision to reject one's childhood faith might play out differently for NTPs vs. NTJs. It says nothing about the many who don't reject that faith.

    The highlighted might have some validity with reference to certain manifestations of (pre)historical Paganism, but modern Paganism is quite different, and in many ways more rational and scientific than any form of Christianity. (A large part of why I am a Pagan, BTW.)
    I dont want to appear insulting to you but I do think that seeking to revive paganism after it has been a dead religion for so long is really mistaken.

    My views on atheism are the same Francis Bacon's that a little philosophy or knowledge inclinth one to atheism but a lot does the opposite.

    http://www.authorama.com/essays-of-f...-bacon-17.html

  9. #349
    Senior Member SensEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    STJs might be more likely to accept the standard indoctrination of childhood, while NTJs will be more likely to question it. Any NTs are likely to question. I suspect that questioning will lead more NTPs to agnosticism, out of that desire not to form conclusions until all the evidence is in, and the inherent impossibility of that when it comes to God. NTJs are more likely to form at least a working hypothesis, which they will use until contradicted by new evidence. This can lead us either to atheism, or to some alternate spirituality like Paganism.
    Ok, thanks for the insight about INTJs. I actually figured they would tend to share the INTP worldview on this topic.

    BTW, if I ever refer to myself as a Pagan, I am just joking about being a non-Christian believer. I don't know anything about actual Paganism and alternate spirituality. In practice I am an agnostic/atheist (agnostic about how the universe came to be, atheistic about any sort of "sky father" as espoused by most mono-theistic human religions). I dismiss all those other alternative spirtitualties as well.

  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I think it's a lot more complicated than that.
    Sure, Hindu spirituality gave India the caste system with its Untouchables, and Hindu spirituality gave India a billion dollar industry in superstition.

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