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  1. #301
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm inclined to agree but then there's a whole question as to what belief in anything means, if you say you believed in America for instance, does it mean you're confident that the reports that it is there are true or do you mean that you're a national patriot or that you've confidence in America as an idea or representative of ideals.
    Well, I'm referring more to faith than anything. I suppose faith without fact is more irrational, and some faiths are more rational than others. I definitely don't "believe" in America- I believe in a few representatives...sort of. I guess we could discuss semantics more in depth.

    As a note, I learned (not sure how true it is) that certain people have an inherent chemical/physical function that is/occurs in their brain that allows them to have faith or lack the ability to "feel" the presence of God.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  2. #302
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    if you say you believed in America for instance, does it mean you're confident that the reports that it is there are true
    This is accepting evidence for its existence. Belief does not require evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    or do you mean that you're a national patriot or that you've confidence in America as an idea or representative of ideals.
    This is more like trusting America, as you would trust a friend or employer (to do the right thing, to work for your/your groups best interests, to be honorable, etc.) I see belief as more properly applied to values and abstract concepts than to people or institutions. To go with the example above, one might then believe in American values - liberty, fundamental equality, even rugged individualism - whatever you saw those to be. In this case, belief is acceptance of a subjective ideal as having worth and value.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #303
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    Well, even if raised in a Christian family, I became apathetic with religion. I am not a dedicated atheist but maybe I am between agnosticism and apatheism. However, I always had an interest on the metaphysical and paranormal phenomena even though I didn't entirely believe and the more I try to analyze and gather new data about it the more I am with skeptics side. But I will still like to listen to these stories without trying necessarily to disprove them but maybe only make some observations.

    The first I thought about how strong believer or atheist one is, is a connection between P/J. I feel that my P makes me more of a listener, trying to gather all the data before making a final conclusion (and that's why I am floating around, in the realm of "I don't know", I am not fast to answer these questions). I think there can be both atheists and theists in P/J, but maybe the more J types may be more fanatic or direct with their belief. Ps will be more drown back agnostics, either tending a little to theism or atheism but not absolutely.

    But then I see there are a lot of different types that can be either of the two kinds, and this is interesting and I agree there is more complexity on the matter, upbringing, influences, etc besides types. But how you express your preference might be interesting to see on MBTi terms.

    And these thoughts about P/J haunts me right now, it's damn interesting but I am not sure yet. I observe the P in myself and make these thoughts. There is another notion in how we decide about what is true or if one should debunk. I mean,. some people when they hear about something extraordinary they feel the need to instantly "debunk it". Or they say, if I haven't seen it, it still doesn't exist. I have a different way on this, if I hear something and it's interesting, I just collect the information. If I don't search more about it, I can't be sure. But it's interesting, so that I don't deny it by first, maybe there is something to it, maybe not. It's the P collecting information before going into conclusion part of me. Maybe there is something and I want to learn more about it before deciding.

  4. #304
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    Well, even if raised in a Christian family, I became apathetic with religion. I always had an interest on the metaphysical and paranormal phenomena even though I didn't entirely believe and the more I try to analyze and gather new data about it the more I am with skeptics side.
    Same with me. I consider myself an atheist or pantheist, so I'm not spiritual or religious, but I was always interested in paranormal things or the question about life after death. I see things the scientific way though.
    4w3 - 7w6 - 1w9 : The Idealist

  5. #305
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSDesigner View Post
    Are NT's usually atheist?
    Are NF's usually theists?
    Are there any NT's who believe in god?
    Are there any NF's who don't believe in god?
    I have zero spirituality. Nil. Nada.
    NF atheist
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #306
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    Of course I believe in God because INTP is God and RaptorWizard is INTP!

  7. #307
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    NF pantheist. We're somewhere between atheist and theist. I consider myself spiritual but not religious.

    I'd say there is a fair number of NT's in the pagan community, probably more INTJ's than INTP's.

    Among those who would call themselves pantheists, I think there would be a lot of Ni users.

  8. #308
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    I identify with pantheism but usually don't bother explaining that to people.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  9. #309
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I identify with pantheism but usually don't bother explaining that to people.
    Christians worship the Trinity, Muslims worship Allah, but I have never heard a pantheist say they worship Pan. Why is that?

  10. #310
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Christians worship the Trinity, Muslims worship Allah, but I have never heard a pantheist say they worship Pan. Why is that?
    Bread. Bread is delicious. I worship bread.

    I don't think there's some spiritual truth we can really take away from that, as it happens. I just think that there's an underlying order, but I don't get "proof" that we should love everyone or something from it. It doesn't tell me much about morality, or that a better world is possible, or any of that.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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