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  1. #251
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I remember trying to defend the trinity scripturally once. I looked into early church teachings, original greek, textual variants etc. My certainty that the trinity is scripturally defensible gradually dwindled. In the end the strongest argument I could summon amounted to: "If it's wrong then why did God let us all believe it? Given that at one stage trinitarianism hinged almost solely on the conviction of one person (Athanasius), surely it would've been easier to erase that conviction than to vastly duplicate it?" Which obviously isn't much of an argument.

    Let the record show I'm INFP and don't know if I have a religion anymore. How INFP is that?
    As far as I am informed, the trinity was introduced into the texts that ended up in the Bible through interpolations. In other words: It is even more made-up than the rest.

  2. #252
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    As far as I am informed, the trinity was introduced into the texts that ended up in the Bible through interpolations. In other words: It is even more made-up than the rest.
    You are informed incorrectly. Augustine and Athanasius managed to argue for the trinity from the bible without ever referencing the later introduced words you're referring to.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  3. #253
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    You are informed incorrectly. Augustine and Athanasius managed to argue for the trinity from the bible without ever referencing the later introduced words you're referring to.
    Yeah I looked into their arguments as part of my investigation, as well as those of the Cappadocian Fathers, Tertullian, Origen and others. It seemed to me that there was a lot of politics and misunderstandings/mistranslations involved, and not much scriptural basis. Which was not the conclusion I wanted to arrive at, believe me. If it were any lesser doctrine I'm sure it would be dismissed out of hand. But it's pretty hard to dismiss the Trinity and remain a Christian.

  4. #254
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Yeah I looked into their arguments as part of my investigation, as well as those of the Cappadocian Fathers, Tertullian, Origen and others. It seemed to me that there was a lot of politics and misunderstandings/mistranslations involved, and not much scriptural basis. Which was not the conclusion I wanted to arrive at, believe me. If it were any lesser doctrine I'm sure it would be dismissed out of hand. But it's pretty hard to dismiss the Trinity and remain a Christian.
    Well, at least you didn't join an Arian cult. I had one of those guys try to proselytize me while we were both running a long distance race. It was pretty annoying.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #255
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Well, at least you didn't join an Arian cult. I had one of those guys try to proselytize me while we were both running a long distance race. It was pretty annoying.
    Yeah, I just lost my faith. Take that, Arians!

  6. #256
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    @DisneyGeek that's called Apatheism.

  7. #257
    your resident asshole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    DisneyGeek that's called Apatheism.
    Ahh yes, this is a much better word.

  8. #258
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    You are informed incorrectly. Augustine and Athanasius managed to argue for the trinity from the bible without ever referencing the later introduced words you're referring to.
    That by itself does not say much. Using the Bible, Harold Camping managed to argue that the rapture would take place on May 21, 2011. Do you have their arguments at hand?

  9. #259
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    That by itself does not say much. Using the Bible, Harold Camping managed to argue that the rapture would take place on May 21, 2011. Do you have their arguments at hand?
    I'm not going to argue this with someone who doesn't believe the bible to contain any truth to begin with. You have already concluded that what is in the bible is false so there is nothing for me to argue.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  10. #260
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I'm not going to argue this with someone who doesn't believe the bible to contain any truth to begin with. You have already concluded that what is in the bible is false so there is nothing for me to argue.
    The question is not whether their conclusions are true, but whether they follow from the text. I am not asking you to argue for them. I just thought you might have the arguments ready for presentation.

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