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  1. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I'm not carrying on, I said what I meant to say. And I don't think it's trivial.
    From my point of view, it is trivial. There are so many other gender issues to be focused on--women and body issues, gender roles, male dominance, slut-shaming, etc. The gender neutrality of deities isn't very relevant in my eyes, especially considering the increasing number of non-religious people in this world.

    I'm just bringing it up as a topic of discussion, because it's a common practice which most people don't think about. It's not a question of how thin my skin is. It's a relatively trivial symptom of a problem which is significant, which is that this country is still biased towards Christianity (with a patriarchal slant) and still subtly suppresses other religious views. I know you're going to say that most people here are Christian, but we should either promote a religiously neutral environment or be inclusive of all religions. In my opinion. I'm not bothered by our discussion. Are you?
    What I'm bothered by is a problem that I'm not really seeing. I realize that the gender issue you're talking about is more relevant to the thread, but I don't see much of a reason to focus so much on it.

    Yes I do.
    Why? "Mankind" does not simply refer to men. Other words you might know to mean "mankind" include "humanity," "humankind," "the human race," etc. Should we get rid of "man-made" as well just because it contains the word "man?" It's silly and trivial, just as people who insist darker skinned people are to be called "African American" and nothing else. I describe darker skinned people as "black," as I've only known one "African American" in my lifetime.

    You're making yourself out to be one of those over-reactive feminists who give women a bad name.

    I didn't. And I don't think believing that Divinity should be represented by both genders instead of just one is illogical at all. Anyway, I wasn't focusing on logical reasoning, I was focusing on principles conducive to social harmony. I have a lot of logical reasoning regarding spirituality and religion. I hope you're not assuming it's not there.
    The bolded part is not illogical at all. If this is a reason for believing Christianity is false, it is illogical.

  2. #192
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    No sacred feminine in Christianity?


    So being proclaimed the Most Blessed Mother of God and the Queen of Heaven doesn't count?
    Not in my book. Being a virgin is hardly celebratory of femininity. And she didn't really do much besides have a baby. Not a very empowering image for women. In my opinion. But I'm just a crazy tree hugging feminist pagan who thinks sex is sacred.

    I like these images better:
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  3. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    My main belief that man is superior to woman is not biblical. I have always known that, even when I was an atheist.

    And while there may have been some pagan beliefs worshiping women and other sects worshiping women over men, I'd wager that those were overall a small fraction of the number that saw males as superior to females historically. That sounds like a typical thing that modern pagans say to rationalize their feminist ideals.
    When you first posted I assumed you were being sarcastic, but wow. I don't even know what to say to this. No gender is superior to one another.

  4. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    From my point of view, it is trivial. There are so many other gender issues to be focused on--women and body issues, gender roles, male dominance, slut-shaming, etc. The gender neutrality of deities isn't very relevant in my eyes, especially considering the increasing number of non-religious people in this world.


    What I'm bothered by is a problem that I'm not really seeing. I realize that the gender issue you're talking about is more relevant to the thread, but I don't see much of a reason to focus so much on it.


    Why? "Mankind" does not simply refer to men. Other words you might know to mean "mankind" include "humanity," "humankind," "the human race," etc. Should we get rid of "man-made" as well just because it contains the word "man?" It's silly and trivial, just as people who insist darker skinned people are to be called "African American" and nothing else. I describe darker skinned people as "black," as I've only known one "African American" in my lifetime.

    You're making yourself out to be one of those over-reactive feminists who give women a bad name.


    The bolded part is not illogical at all. If this is a reason for believing Christianity is false, it is illogical.
    You're entitled to your opinion and I to mine. I am one of those feminists. Sorry.

  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    When you first posted I assumed you were being sarcastic, but wow. I don't even know what to say to this. No gender is superior to one another.
    Oh contraire. Most women understand this, as do men. There is a natural submissiveness most women have to a man. Even if the woman is very strong in every other way, woman is naturally made to be submissive to her partner, overall. Dominant = superior. Though I did qualify it and say that of course it takes both to have the necessary balance for life to survive and thrive.
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  6. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Not in my book. Being a virgin is hardly celebratory of femininity.
    Purity is not celebrating of femininity?

    But I'm just a crazy tree hugging feminist pagan who thinks sex is sacred.
    Hey that's nice, almost every tradition thinks sex is sacred. Other than the Shakers, I'm not aware of too many religions that don't celebrate sex as part of the divine order of life. Heck an entire book of the Bible, the Songs of Solomon, describes God's love for mankind through the metaphor of the passionate love between a man and women, with plenty of erotic imagery to boot.

  7. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Not in my book. Being a virgin is hardly celebratory of femininity. And she didn't really do much besides have a baby. Not a very empowering image for women. In my opinion. But I'm just a crazy tree hugging feminist pagan who thinks sex is sacred.

    I like these images better:
    MotherGoddessEarth.jpg
    Mother Earth
    5731895.jpg
    Artemis
    200px-Snake_Goddess_Crete_1600BC.jpg
    Snake Goddess
    Why commit the sin of omission by leaving out the last great Pagan, Hypatia, a woman certainly, and the Librarian of the Great Pagan Library of Alexandria?

    Hypatia was not only a great Pagan Librarian but also a great Astronomer who was the first to observe and calculate that the Earth went round the Sun.

    We know why you have omitted the last great Pagan, Hypatia, because she would regard tree hugging feminist pagans as fatuous.

    And rather than thinking sex is sacred, Hypatia thought sex was a waste of time for anyone with a life of the mind.

  8. #198
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Oh contraire. Most women understand this, as do men. There is a natural submissiveness most women have to a man. Even if the woman is very strong in every other way, woman is naturally made to be submissive to her partner, overall. Dominant = superior. Though I did qualify it and say that of course it takes both to have the necessary balance for life to survive and thrive.
    I think you are misinterpreting. I think you are confusing passive and active with dominant and submissive. Men are (generally more) yang and women are (generally more) yin, but according to Taoism it is yin which is more fundamental, and considered to be the more powerful. It takes both in a balance, which means balance of power, which means lack of domination. The only reason more yin people would be more "submissive" would be that they are naturally more powerful, and so being more passive would balance the power. Likewise, men are (generally) physically more powerful, so they need to be more considerate to women in this regard in order to balance the power.

    If this belief works for you, great. Does it empower you to lead a successful, independent life and attract positive, fulfilling relationships?

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Why commit the sin of omission by leaving out the last great Pagan, Hypatia, a woman certainly, and the Librarian of the Great Pagan Library of Alexandria?

    Hypatia was not only a great Pagan Librarian but also a great Astronomer who was the first to observe and calculate that the Earth went round the Sun.

    We know why you have omitted the last great Pagan, Hypatia, because she would regard tree hugging feminist pagans as fatuous.

    And rather than thinking sex is sacred, Hypatia thought sex was a waste of time for anyone with a life of the mind.
    I'm sure she was a cool lady, and she was entitled to her beliefs as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Purity is not celebrating of femininity?
    The concept of sexual purity, meaning not having sex implies that sex is dirty- and if it implies a woman only having sex with one man it is sexist. It is usually not applied to men in the same ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Hey that's nice, almost every tradition thinks sex is sacred. Other than the Shakers, I'm not aware of too many religions that don't celebrate sex as part of the divine order of life. Heck an entire book of the Bible, the Songs of Solomon, describes God's love for mankind through the metaphor of the passionate love between a man and women, with plenty of erotic imagery to boot.
    I didn't know the Bible had that. That's kind of cool. But then the Bible has all kinds of things and is full of contradictions. You can basically pick out a couple of things to support anything, and then 5 other things to refute it.

    Every tradition celebrates it in its own way, and some way more than others.

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    From my point of view, it is trivial. There are so many other gender issues to be focused on--women and body issues, gender roles, male dominance, slut-shaming, etc. The gender neutrality of deities isn't very relevant in my eyes, especially considering the increasing number of non-religious people in this world.


    What I'm bothered by is a problem that I'm not really seeing. I realize that the gender issue you're talking about is more relevant to the thread, but I don't see much of a reason to focus so much on it.
    One more thing: I don't focus on it any more than the other things you listed. It's just more relevant to the thread, so I'm talking about it here.

  9. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Seek the truth, for the truth shall set you free. One can only find the truth if they seek understanding. Yet to seek understanding, one must first believe. One must believe in order they may understand. It is the liberation of the Intellect.
    ?

    When one believes 1st and then seeks understanding, one would easily find more and more reasons to believe, therefore inevitably believe whether accurate or not.

    In your defense this is the reason all religions of the world exist/survive. So although what you said is illogical it is a thinking pattern probably practiced by most people in the world - me included.

    May I know from whom you quoted that?

  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I'm sure she [Hypatia} was a cool lady, and she was entitled to her beliefs as well.
    What it means is that crazy tree hugging feminist pagans who think sex is sacred are only playing at being pagan.

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