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MBTI type and belief in god

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,192
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I hope you won't mind too much, Coriolis, if I make a personal comment.

And it is a comment I take from Criket. It's when a bowler has the measure of the batsman, and we say, the bowler has found his length.

At first you threw me quite off my length, and as you yourself say, you aim to win an argument.

So at first I thought you were a tiger, but it turns out you are a paper tiger.
You are incorrect, on two counts. First, I never said my aim was to win an argument. I will, however, call out what appears inaccurate when I see it. If it is I who am in error, the other person can explain how. In this manner, we both get to the bottom of the matter. Second, here I am at best an electronic tiger, unless you are printing out our discussions.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,568
Don't worry - I can tell the difference between an insult and simple disagreement. I am curious, though, as to what you consider "mistaken" about modern Pagans. First, Paganism never totally died out, though it was certainly supplanted in many regions first by Judaism, then Christianity and eventually Islam. Hinduism, for instance, has long been the main religion of India, and is essentially that culture's version of Paganism. Same for the spiritual traditions of many indigenous people like the Native American cultures.

That being said, modern Pagans know better than to attempt to reproduce the religion of millennia ago. Many of us do enjoy the history lesson of studying those times, but with the benefit of modern hindsight, we have far greater understanding of the natural world on many levels than did people in those times, though I do think we have lost some of their understanding. I don't want to derail this thread into another discussion of Paganism. In fact there already is one, if you are really interested in a sampling of what modern Pagans think.

As for Francis Bacon, the first line of this essay is telling:


He is going into his investigation with a preconception. Far more than a hypothesis, it is what he wants to think. His arguments support this desire, not necessarily following the facts.

If you consider the context in which he is writing it would only make sense that in order to be able to discuss atheism he would have to begin with an affirmation of something, anything other than atheism.

The important point, as I said was that he suggests a little knowledge leads to atheism and a lot in the other direction.

What you write about makes sense, however it would also, to me affirm anything other than a paganistic revival, unlike so many of the other world religions those ideas would appear to be hide bound to their era and context without perrenial underpinnings. Testifying that the origin myths and beliefs of multiple diverse cultures are all essentially pagan seems pretty mistaken to me too, the natives of the Americas wouldnt consider there to be continuity with celto-romano-nordic peoples of which some of the modern revivals and reinventions depend such as Wicca or Asatru.

I've read a lot of the thinking of those associated with the Pagan revivals and think it is mistaken, a lot of those who testify to those beliefs I've known to be more set upon recovering or reviving or adopting beliefs which are contrary to, rival or are the perennial opposition to those they reject, for different reasons. That's mistaken too, I for instance oppose a lot of the dissenter, protestant and reformation congregations, particularly a lot of the modern US varieties but I dont believe in the RCC, for the most part, because it is and has been juxapositioned opposite to those currents.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,568
You are incorrect, on two counts. First, I never said my aim was to win an argument. I will, however, call out what appears inaccurate when I see it. If it is I who am in error, the other person can explain how. In this manner, we both get to the bottom of the matter. Second, here I am at best an electronic tiger, unless you are printing out our discussions.

Do you wonder were that particular stream of consciousness came from?

Cricket and maoism?
 

Qre:us

New member
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
4,890
So at first I thought you were a tiger, but it turns out you are a paper tiger.

Second, here I am at best an electronic tiger, unless you are printing out our discussions.

Coriolis, it's a Chinese idiom - paper tiger. Meaning, something that pretends to be like a real tiger, fierce, powerful, and threatening, but, in reality, is none of those things.

"Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
 
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
150
MBTI Type
INFP
Without appearing biased or controversial in claiming this, based upon personal experience/ observations, this is what I've usually observed:

NFs:

INFP- would probably alternate between being a devout follower toward whichever faith they belong to (based upon how well it correlates with their personal value system), or being somewhat outspoken about their atheism or disbelief in traditional religion, often rationalizing their views by recalling certain inner beliefs they've reflected upon that they feel contradict the common teachings of said religion.

INFJ- might be more inclined to believing in God simply as a means to conforming with societal values, without following a traditional religious structure. More specifically, I often feel that most INFJs may tend to be either spiritual believers in God (having faith in Him without considering themselves a follower of any particular faith and basing their beliefs upon their own visions and ideals) or agnostic, feeling that something divine may lie above us all, but is impossible or much too complex to describe.

ENFP- probably more inclined to being spiritual/ agnostic than truly religious, as their Ne was lead to their seeming skeptical of traditional beliefs and continuously question the "what ifs" and possibilities that lie beyond what the bible (or whichever religious book) has taught them.

ENFJ- based upon personal experience, I've observed that many of them tend to be surprisingly religious/ spiritual with an open desire to inspire society to instill their religious ideas onto eithers and "enlighten" them by persuading them to accept their faith (yes, I know that this sounds terrible, and didn't intend to insult ENFJs in claiming this, either...). I feel as though most of them fulfill the role of the classic spiritual leader/ mentor attempting to offer healing and acceptance toward those around them and lead them towards positivity through a shared faith.

NTs:

INTP- As the INFP, probably alternates between being rather vocal about their atheism or being spiritual/ agnostic, considering differing religious viewpoints, yet remaining skeptical to them all while trying to discern the ultimate "truth" beyond it all through extensive deductive reasoning and analysis. Probably somewhat quirkier and more alternative in their reasoning than would be the INTJ.

INTJ- Probably rather similar to the INTP in terms of their perspective on religion, but with a certain logical/ scientific edge about them, being somewhat more subjective in their logical reasoning as they approach religion as something that can be analyzed through scientific analysis (think the typical intellectuals discussing the prospects of religion on a documentary contrasting atheism against Christianity.)

ENTP- Probably possesses some sort of alternative perspective upon religion as they reject all potential beliefs and try to craft their own personal spiritual system to follow based upon their own logical reasoning, regardless of how eccentric it may seem to outsiders.

ENTJ- Probably very similar to the ENFJ previously described, but with a greater desire to organize their environment logically based upon their vision than group people harmoniously according to ethics and a common religious belief.

SJ:

ESFJ- The dutiful religious follower who continuously tries to exemplify the traits of the ideal Christian (or member of their personal religion) by being overly polite to all newcomers and striving to organize church activities and meetings that will strengthen the sense of "togetherness and belonging" experienced by the community.

ISFJ- A quiet, dutiful follower to their religious faith who readily adheres to the ideals imposed by the church and tries to comply to them by adapting their values onto their daily structure of life. Likely a kindhearted, hard-working contributor to the church who serves as the ESFJs calmer, less expressive partner in spreading the word. If a teenager, I'd also imagine them to be the type to engage in several community service organizations/ extracurricular revolving around their religious beliefs and being an avid volunteer for the church's activities.

ESTJ- The strict, traditionalist parent/ leader striving to organize their environment according to their religious beliefs at whichever cost, probably adhering to the views proposed by their faith a bit more strongly than most and seeming hesitant to accept any new ideas that may somehow contradict the bible's teaching, hence their appearing somewhat close-minded and inflexible in regards to more controversial matters (gays/ transsexuals, abortion, premarital sex, teenage pregnancy, atheism/ agnosticism, marrying outside their faith, etc.)

ISTJ- Likely bears many similarities to the ESTJ church member described above, but is quieter and less imposing in stressing their religious beliefs. Probably desires to adhere to a traditional schedule for attending church every Sunday and honoring every religious holiday/ event in their calendar with reverence. As the ESTJ, I feel they might also struggle in accepting unorthodox values/ controversial matters that deviate from the norm.

SP

ISFP- May appear similar to the INFP to an extent, yet seems more likely to be "spiritual", without a strong adherence to any particular faith/ religion, as they observe their society from afar and craft their own inner value system based upon what feels "right".

ISTP- Probably the most likely of all the MBTI types to be a flat-out atheist (although I may be biased in assuming this), as they appear to be very logical and present-oriented, possibly causing them to defer any form of religious belief/ practice simply because it just doesn't seem feasible/ logical to them.

ESFP- Similar to the ISFP in their tendency to be "spiritual" in their beliefs, although I feel that they for some reason seem more likely to be a believer in faith/ religion (possibly as the bubbly, enthusiastic churchgoer striving to be kind and polite towards everyone and accept them equally).

ESTP- Like the ISTP, is possibly too pragmatic/ present-oriented to give much regard to religion, claiming that religious belief simply seems impractical and overly theoretical, being rooted within idealistic values/ beliefs that have no root in concrete reality.


Once more, I did not intend to offend anyone with anything mentioned upon this list, but instead, was merely sharing my personal beliefs of how every MBTI type might approach religion. I respect everyone's personal beliefs/ value systems and am not trying to stereotype/ categorize anyone.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
Once more, I did not intend to offend anyone with anything mentioned upon this list, but instead, was merely sharing my personal beliefs of how every MBTI type might approach religion. I respect everyone's personal beliefs/ value systems and am not trying to stereotype/ categorize anyone.

This is impeccable, impeccably correct, and offends no one. So why not turn your hand to how every Star Sign might approach religion?
 

secretowl

New member
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Messages
9
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx
When it comes to monotheistic religions any personality type goes.
NTs would try and prove the existence of God
NFs would dwell in the spiritual aspects of the religion
SPs would believe it but probably not act on it
SJs would strictly follow the rules of the religion

I think that this is a pretty good assessment, to which I would add that, when NTs are religious, they have to rationalize it extensively (especially INTs) or backburner it while maintaining casual association with it as a social machination (ENTs). The rationalization can lend itself to some pretty cogent Intelligent Design arguments, and/OR totally fringe, conspiracy theory cult-grade mania (i.e. "alien sightings are fallen angels communicating with the American media Jews, conspiring with the Israeli state descended from Cain, the offspring of Eve and Satan, etc., and also, they're probably Reptilians who can only be fought by summoning archangels via Hyperspace symbols).
x_x"
"'Cause there's gotta be an explanation for all this stuff, right?"

This is perhaps one the worst arguments I've heard to try and prove God does not exist and funny enough, it's one of the most effective.

It's the NF way.

Julianne-Moore.jpg

It doesn't matter. As a religious minority, atheists are deemed less trustworthy than rapists. We'll need all the cute, fuzzy NF poster-kids we can get.
 

á´…eparted

passages
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
Nearly all other ENFJ's that I know are religious and or spiritual.

I, and one ENFJ-4w3 that I know are the only atheist ENFJ's I know.
 

geedoenfj

The more you know..
Joined
Oct 6, 2015
Messages
3,347
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I'm an ENFJ religious but not spiritual if that make sense.
I think I'm more interested in the philosophical or logical and history aspects of the religion, rather than the spiritual aspect..
But my mom is a very spiritual religious INTJ, and she's in many occasions irrational about her expectations of life because of her belief structure..
 

Forever

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
8,551
MBTI Type
NiFi
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I certainly think there's more out there but I'm on the border when it comes to spirituality. I believe in balance. Everyone has a part to play. If anything was far too leaning one way, the world would fall into chaos and unstability. The way I see the world is chaotic organization.
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,913
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Nearly all other ENFJ's that I know are religious and or spiritual.

I, and one ENFJ-4w3 that I know are the only atheist ENFJ's I know.

My ENFJ isn't an atheist - he finds that as much of a belief as any other religion. I would call him agnostic if I had to call him something but even that's not accurate.
 

Tilt

Active member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
2,584
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Nearly all other ENFJ's that I know are religious and or spiritual.

I, and one ENFJ-4w3 that I know are the only atheist ENFJ's I know.
I (3w4) am agnostic. My 3w2 ENFJ friend is too... possibly even an atheist. We used to talk about the paradoxes of religion. Lol
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,913
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
"'Cause there's gotta be an explanation for all this stuff, right?"

No. My question has always been - how can anyone put this much faith and belief into anything? It's dangerous and going by the past, I think that's the only proven fact about religion.
 

Luke O

Super Ape
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
1,729
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
954
INTP, atheist, I don't wear a fedora nor have I read any book by Richard Dawkins.
 

Olm the Water King

across the universe
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,455
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
459
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Are NT's usually atheist?
Are NF's usually theists?
Are there any NT's who believe in god?
Are there any NF's who don't believe in god?
I have zero spirituality. Nil. Nada.

I'm not sure how this would work in the Czech Republic or Eastern Germany where most people are non-religious or in Saudi Arabia where almost everyone is religious. This is actually highly cultural.
 
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