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MBTI type and belief in god

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
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What it means is that crazy tree hugging feminist pagans who think sex is sacred are only playing at being pagan.

Based on one example? There were millions of pagans in history. The average Celtic Druid wouldn't think it was crazy at all.
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
The concept of sexual purity, meaning not having sex implies that sex is dirty..
Not really, rather the concept is that sex is such a special gift from God that it should not be wasted and squandered. In the case of asceticism, the argument is that one is giving up a good to serve another greater good. That's why celibacy is so greatly honoured. This basic concept can found in both pagan and Abrahamic traditions. The Roman pagans had the Vestal Virgins, who were held in the highest regard and for any of them to break their vow of celibacy carried severe consequences. Hinduism has its celibate yogis. Buddhism has its monks. Almost every tradition has its celibates who are greatly revered for their willful self-sacrifice and self-discipline.

- and if it implies a woman only having sex with one man it is sexist. It is usually not applied to men in the same ways.
In Christianity it is. One man, one woman. A man having sex with anybody else other than his wife is the sin of adultery. Even in traditions that permit polygamy, the husband is still obligated to give due love and attention to each of his wives, and that even includes sexual satisfaction.

I didn't know the Bible had that. That's kind of cool. But then the Bible has all kinds of things and is full of contradictions. You can basically pick out a couple of things to support anything, and then 5 other things to refute it.
Can you provide some examples of such? Often what happens is that the Bible doesn't really contradict itself, it's rather certain interpretations of scriptures don't hold up when thoroughly examined. Often the Bible is making references in different contexts, and verses need to be understood within those contexts. Which is why there are procedures towards proper interpretation of holy texts.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

failure to thrive
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I think you are misinterpreting. I think you are confusing passive and active with dominant and submissive. Men are yang and women are yin, but according to Taoism it is yin which is more fundamental, and considered to be the more powerful. It takes both in a balance, which means balance of power, which means lack of domination. The only reason more yin people would be more "submissive" would be that they are naturally more powerful, and so being more passive would balance the power. Likewise, men are (generally) physically more powerful, so they need to be more considerate to women in this regard in order to balance the power.

If this belief works for you, great. Does it empower you to lead a successful, independent life and attract positive, fulfilling relationships?


I see it like this. There is feminine energy and male energy. Perhaps these come packaged incorrectly in bodies. I believe that gender identity disorder exists, and I'll just make that statement right up front. But within a partnership, the female partner will naturally stand down to her partner most of the time, or at least at times when there is an impasse; she knows her place. And, yes, this is submissive and submission may either be passive or active, it all depends on what the male partner dictates in that situation or moment.

Is the female partner stronger ? Perhaps in some ways, of course. But standing down and knowing her place is still a definite sign of inferiority in some way and that cannot be mistaken or ignored in the name of political correctness, else you are missing the point. How can this work long-term? How can a balance be struck if there is not exact equality among the partners? For the very fact that she is giving her energy to child-rearing and raising the young, and it is there that the balance is effected. If she were equal to her mate and made all manner of decisions and exertions as such, she would not have the necessary energy to rear children and manage the home and family, etc. If there are no young, she might enact this upon animals. If there are no animals, then perhaps the two would strike more of a power balance which you would find appealing. =)

A very strong woman will consequently need a very strong male to override her. A very weak woman will need a weak male. A very weak woman will not do well with a very strong male, just as a very weak male will not do well with a very strong woman. The proper balance of power must be struck for the ultimate balance, with the male genuinely commanding just a bit more power or domination than the female.


This works in a lesbian or gay couple as well. One partner will assume for maleness and therefore more dominance and one more femaleness and more submissiveness.
 

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
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Most historians seriously dispute that such matriarchies ever existed. The most famous proponent of this theory was Marija Gimbutas, and she was acknowledged as knowledgeable in the field, her interpretations of the evidence was severely criticized.
If this is true, then it is different than how I've been educated. I'm pretty sure there are some surviving Native Americans who would describe their traditional way of life as matriarchal, maybe quibbling over semantics and details. (Not that all Native American cultures were of course.)

In any case, the bottom line is that no one can really know what lies in history, because none of us has been there. And it's usually written by the people in power.
Seek the truth, for the truth shall set you free. One can only find the truth if they seek understanding. Yet to seek understanding, one must first believe. One must believe in order they may understand. It is the liberation of the Intellect.
I agree with the first sentence. The second one mostly. The rest I think is somewhat illogical.
 

Mole

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Based on one example? There were millions of pagans in history. The average Celtic Druid wouldn't think it was crazy at all.

What do you think a Celtic Druid would think of a crazy feminist tree hugging 'pagan' who thinks sex is sacred?
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
If this is true, then it is different than how I've been educated. I'm pretty sure there are some surviving Native Americans who would describe their traditional way of life as matriarchal, maybe quibbling over semantics and details. (Not that all Native American cultures were of course.)
What happens is that people too often confuse matrilineal societies with matriarchies. There's an important distinction between the two. Matrilineal simply means that descent is derived from the mother's line, not the father's. Judaism for example operates on this basis: where one's status as a Jew is determined by whether or not your mother is Jewish. But that doesn't mean women have the authority.

I agree with the first sentence. The second one mostly. The rest I think is somewhat illogical.
As often is the case, it depends on what tradition of "logic" one is operating under.
 

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
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I see it like this. There is feminine energy and male energy. Perhaps these come packaged incorrectly in bodies. I believe that gender identity disorder exists, and I'll just make that statement right up front. But within a partnership, the female partner will naturally stand down to her partner most of the time, or at least at times when there is an impasse; she knows her place. And, yes, this is submissive and submission may either be passive or active, it all depends on what the male partner dictates in that situation or moment.

Is the female partner stronger ? Perhaps in some ways, of course. But standing down and knowing her place is still a definite sign of inferiority in some way and that cannot be mistaken or ignored in the name of political correctness, else you are missing the point. How can this work long-term? How can a balance be struck if there is not exact equality among the partners? For the very fact that she is giving her energy to child-rearing and raising the young, and it is there that the balance is effected. If she were equal to her mate and made all manner of decisions and exertions as such, she would not have the necessary energy to rear children and manage the home and family, etc. If there are no young, she might enact this upon animals. If there are no animals, then perhaps the two would strike more of a power balance which you would find appealing. =)

A very strong woman will consequently need a very strong male to override her. A very weak woman will need a weak male. A very weak woman will not do well with a very strong male, just as a very weak male will not do well with a very strong woman. The proper balance of power must be struck for the ultimate balance, with the male genuinely commanding just a bit more power or domination than the female.


This works in a lesbian or gay couple as well. One partner will assume for maleness and therefore more dominance and one more femaleness and more submissiveness.

Well that sounds sort of reasonable. I look at it more like each person has their territory and area of focus. It's not really about submission. If the guy I marry and have a family with is better at managing money, I'd be happy to let him do it. And if I cook more I expect to have more respect in the kitchen. But important decisions should be made collectively. It's more about who is better at what, and people naturally doing what they are good at, and cooperating.

What do you think a Celtic Druid would think of a crazy feminist tree hugging 'pagan' who thinks sex is sacred?

I think they would think we were very similar.
 

greenfairy

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So now that I've involuntarily hijacked the thread, the follow-up question relating back to the OP is: do my beliefs fit INFJ?
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Well that sounds sort of reasonable. I look at it more like each person has their territory and area of focus. It's not really about submission. If the guy I marry and have a family with is better at managing money, I'd be happy to let him do it. And if I cook more I expect to have more respect in the kitchen. But important decisions should be made collectively. It's more about who is better at what, and people naturally doing what they are good at, and cooperating.


Yes, but it is not the same. You'll know what I mean when you find the right partner for you. ;)
 
S

Sniffles

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So now that I've involuntarily hijacked the thread, the follow-up question relating back to the OP is: do my beliefs fit INFJ?
To be honest, I've been enjoying our little discussion. :) As to answer your question: maybe. INFJs believe all sorts of things really.

The one link I posted earlier maybe of help in that regards: http://www.msgr.ca/msgr/WEBPrayerHANDBOOK_9_ignatian_prayer.htm
Although dealing with NFs in general, I think many INFJs could easily relate to the spiritual style explained. I know I can.
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
Anyways, how about some music? :bye:

O Virgin pure, immaculate O Lady Theotokos
O Virgin Mother, Queen of all and fleece which is all dewy
More radiant than the rays of sun and higher than the heavens
Delight of virgin choruses superior to Angels.
Much brighter than the firmament and purer than the sun's light
More holy than the multitude of all the heav'nly armies.
 

xisnotx

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I have no idea what my religious beliefs are anymore. My point is, I think it's a progression...people aren't a set thing...as things change, so do their beliefs.

I've met very few atheists...and of the one's I've met, they don't really fit into any one personality type.

Online, however, I'd say there is a tendency towards nts being "unconventionally religious". Usually, their religious beliefs come with a twist..
 

Nicodemus

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The Universe (and whatever may exist outside it) is ancient and vast. Surely throughout immensity and eternity life has emerged under all phases of development. We have no idea at what level of advancement some such civilizations may have attained, and if one were sufficiently evolved, perhaps they would be so powerful, that the great wonders they could work would appear to us as divine power, though the question of whether we have ever received extraterrestrial contact is at best speculative.
That is indeed rather reasonable ('Contact' by Carl Sagan comes to mind). But I think you are not doing yourself a favor by calling them gods.

Being a virgin is hardly celebratory of femininity.
And she was not even a virgin! The Septuagint translated the Hebrew 'almah', meaning 'young, prolific woman' as 'parthenos', meaning 'virgin'.
 
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But I think you are not doing yourself a favor by calling them gods.
[MENTION=15371]RaptorWizard[/MENTION]
This is pretty much where I sit. If they evolved over time what would make them gods? They are just farther along than we are. Just aliens....
 

greenfairy

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To be honest, I've been enjoying our little discussion. :) As to answer your question: maybe. INFJs believe all sorts of things really.

The one link I posted earlier maybe of help in that regards: http://www.msgr.ca/msgr/WEBPrayerHANDBOOK_9_ignatian_prayer.htm
Although dealing with NFs in general, I think many INFJs could easily relate to the spiritual style explained. I know I can.
Cool, I have too. I even enjoy heated debates sometimes. I'd like to look at some of the links you've posted when I have some time.

I have no idea what my religious beliefs are anymore. My point is, I think it's a progression...people aren't a set thing...as things change, so do their beliefs.

I've met very few atheists...and of the one's I've met, they don't really fit into any one personality type.

Online, however, I'd say there is a tendency towards nts being "unconventionally religious". Usually, their religious beliefs come with a twist..

I agree. My beliefs have certainly evolved over the years. After deciding I wasn't Christian anymore though I really just added a lot of things and stopped subtracting. Many of the world's religions have underlying principles which fit together like a puzzle. I'm pagan, which is an umbrella term that technically includes anything non-Abrahamic; but I use it to say I identify with indigenous beliefs from around the world, including Western Europe. I'm also Hindu and Taoist. The three are so interrelated it would be hard to say which I am more.

I'm sure I know a few atheists, probably a lot in my philosophy classes- but the one I'm aware of off the top of my head is ENFP.
And she was not even a virgin! The Septuagint translated the Hebrew 'almah', meaning 'young, prolific woman' as 'parthenos', meaning 'virgin'.
That's another thing I wanted to mention: in Greek and Roman temples it was common for the "virgins" to actually be sacred prostitutes so to speak. The word prostitute is misleading as well- but they would have sacred sex with people channeling a goddess, sometimes part of a ritual.
 
W

WALMART

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I can more easily perceive an eternal universe than one could conceive an eternal god.


Occam's Razor ftw.
 

Nicodemus

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Yes cause to be a young bride in First Century Palestine it was required to blow at least 50 guys before hand. :rolleyes:
We are talking about a literary character here, not a person. Since your ilk has made such a fuss about her virginity, it seems only fair to mention it.
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
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Oh contraire. Most women understand this, as do men. There is a natural submissiveness most women have to a man. Even if the woman is very strong in every other way, woman is naturally made to be submissive to her partner, overall. Dominant = superior. Though I did qualify it and say that of course it takes both to have the necessary balance for life to survive and thrive.

Well thanks for letting me know just how much of a sexist you are. :bye:
 
S

Sniffles

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Since your ilk has made such a fuss about her virginity, it seems only fair to mention it.
Nitpicking is hardly making a valid point here. So the original Hebrew meant "young woman." And?

*Through a quick google search on the issue, it appears that while almah does indeed mean "young woman", it refers to a "young woman" whose of marriageable age and is indeed a virgin.
http://books.google.com/books?id=F5...s a young woman who is not a virgin."&f=false

And yes Mary was a "young woman" of marriageable age and as a result was a virgin. So what's the issue here?
 
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