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  1. #91
    See Right Through Me Bubbles's Avatar
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    Nature vs nurture, right here. If I hadn't been raised Catholic, it's quite quite quite possible (almost one hundred percent likely) I wouldn't have wound up one. Thinking I'd be believing in something though. Don't know what. If anything, I'd believe in humanity, at least.

    Part of the reason I believe in God the way I do, though, is because I have so many wonderful memories and experiences attached to my faith. It's how it was founded for me that keeps me coming back.

    ...and I totally derailed sim's and Peguy's debate, carry on... -.-
    4w3, IEI, so/sx/sp, female, and Cancer sign.

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    DISCLAIMER: If I offend you, I'm 99.9% sure it's unintentional. So be sure to let me know, m'kay? (And yes, an INFP would stick this in their signature, lol.)

  2. #92
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Yeah, that's the reason most people rely on, whether consciously or not.
    Indeed, but as I clearly stated it's at best a secondary reason for myself. You're free to challenge me on that score, but I must warn I have an unfair advantage over you.

    Seriously, your entire case against Hinduism is that it has too many gods?
    I believe I clearly states that this and other arguments I made are just simple examples, but are only the tip of the iceberg involved with the issues here.

    That seems to suggest that you aren't too well-versed in the philosophy of Hinduism or other eastern religion.
    Actually I am. During my time as an atheist, I read heavily into Buddhist texts and almost considered becoming one. On the other forum I post on I'm continously discussing matters of religion and philosophy with Hindus and Buddhists. Not to mention I have a Hindu friend whom I discuss these matters with. Plus studying world religions has been a passion of mine for much of my life.

    That's great, and I absolutely regard the study of Christianity and the Bible as an integral part of a well-rounded education. I don't, however, understand how "But it influenced lots of people a whole bunch!" as any kind of reasoning for believing in its supposed metaphysical truth value.
    Well again, if you study the wider impacts it's had and the specific nature of that impact - it can help one come to that conclusion; especially when one take in account that culture and history are very much the realms where ideals connect with reality - or from a more religious perspective where mankind connects with the divine. It's still secondary to larger metaphysical matters, but it's still an important secondary matter.

    Not to mention, how does the fact that it's been widely influential indicate anything about its actual truth value?
    I'll repeat this one last time: it can help one come to that conclusion; but again it does not definatively prove Christianity's truth. That is ultimately a matter of faith.

    I'm sure I needn't remind you how many blatant lies have become vastly influential across numerous time periods and cultures in centuries past.
    I'm well aware of that, so no need really. As Risen once said on Vent, it's pretty much a violation of a law of nature to try to debate me on history.


    We do have chaos. Look around you. The vast majority of your life circumstances are determined by random chance.
    That's only true if one decides to adopt a reductionist approach to life.
    Last edited by Sniffles; 09-16-2009 at 12:51 AM.

  3. #93
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    ...and I totally derailed sim's and Peguy's debate, carry on... -.-
    No no, carry on. You're not interrupting anything special.

  4. #94
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
    What happened? I'm curious because currently I am experiencing somewhat of an existential crisis. Toying with nihilism is leaving me in ruins and I am questioning revisiting spirituality.
    There was a period of several years there were I was looking into different religions and belief systems. Ultimately what I was looking for was something that would have the greatest positive impact on my life. At one point I went to a Bible study with some Christians that I knew from grad school. I was impressed with the inner peace and authenticity they had. After a while this lead me to pray to God and commit my life to Him.

    When I first started looking into various belief systems I didn't want to give Christianity a try. I had known to many hypocrites growing up, and the beliefs didn't make much sense to me on top of that. I thought, "if any of these religions are true, then surely Christianity cannot be it." Now that I've become a Christian I'm really glad I gave it a chance though, because it's had such a positive impact on my life. It was really my most important life changing decision.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  5. #95
    Member ilovetrannies's Avatar
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    I'm an ISFP. I've always been an atheist, even as a kid I could tell it was bullshit from a mile away. My parents are sensers, too and they don't give a damn about religion or god. Anybody, got a problem with it?

  6. #96
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilovetrannies View Post
    I'm an ISFP. I've always been an atheist, even as a kid I could tell it was bullshit from a mile away. My parents are sensers, too and they don't give a damn about religion or god. Anybody, got a problem with it?
    lol, I like your attitude.

    I think certain types tend to lean in certain directions. My mom is an ESFJ, she doesn't go to church but she is a traditional Baptist for sure. She mentions biblical references every now and then. She believes in psychics and the Christian heaven. It kind of annoys me because I immediately want to sharpen my tongue at those points but I don't act on it. I respect others' spiritual preferences. But I still wonder why anyone would limit themselves to a specific doctrine since the universe is so large.

    I don't have any beliefs myself, I think as humans we lack the capacity to completely understand the existence of a Deity(s). As I said, I find specific religions extremely limiting. Although from certain research on things like DMT and near-death-experiences I'd like to hope there is something more...but I'm not at a place to say I'm certain, and don't think it's possible for me to do so.

    although this is one of those topics that doesn't do it for me to express anymore.

  7. #97
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    I'm ISTJ, and I was raised Catholic, but as I started to talk to other T's, I realized how easily everything in life could be questions if it were put under the microscope of analysis. This led to me questioning my religion, then questioning all religions, and eventually coming to the conclusion that there's too much doubt in anything, and then so many possibilities that we could be unaware of meaning I'd rather just focus on my own personal interests.


  8. #98
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    I am a Christian by choice.
    I actually grew up in the baptist church and went along with it because that was what my mother did [my dad is/was a catholic...i really dont know what he is honestly] So our family has been split because of that. My mother took us kids to church while our dad did whatever he wanted to. Having a mother who is a Christian and having a father who really has no religious hold of anything can be severally confussing. My mom became a Christian after she had married my dad and after that my dad started telling her that she changed. She was into drugs [cocain, exstacy, anything really] and drank quite a bit. Thats what my parents did together, but once my mom became a Christian, eventually she quit everything. She felt a need for something different and those addictions she had weren't cutting it. It changed her alot.

    So naturally when i became a teenager [15] I had alot of doubts and really I didnt really care about such things. I wanted to hang out with friends and I wanted to try to fit in. I was so insecure and did anything that was asked of me...I really never felt i belonged. When I was 17 thats when I felt God touch my heart and tell me that its "time for me to become who i am suppost to be." It was such an intense moment for me because i was searching for my identity in other teens my age...and it left me alone and hurt and never fulfilled.
    To know that you have an identity in Jesus Christ is fullfilling. I found myself a great church that LOVED me and brought me in as a sister. Look i'd been to lots and lots of churches because we always moved. But this church...wow. You know somethings going right there. And i knew that love was something that was missing in my love and through my relationship with Him, I found it and I found my identity. Now whenever I've talked with old friends from those years of rebellion and such, they're all the same and they've claimed that I've changed in a really great way. Self confidence, courage, alot more friendly and just an all around better person to be around. And you know what? I'm happy and I'm at peace. I'm not perfect and i really know how to screw up, but i know that im forgiven for my mistakes and im still loved no matter how bad my mistake was!

    Thats why I chose christianity. It isnt about being good and doing all these good deeds. Its not about what we can do. Its a relationship with God.
    And you may not understand what I'm saying and thats fine. Because you can tell someone about chocolate and you can tell them all the facts and what its made of and even how chocolate makes you feel. but unless that person has eatten chocolate themselves, they wont really 'know' chocolate.

    Anyway, im not looking for a debate, im only putting my faith out there.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  9. #99
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSDesigner View Post
    Are NT's usually atheist?
    Are NF's usually theists?
    Are there any NT's who believe in god?
    Are there any NF's who don't believe in god?
    I have zero spirituality. Nil. Nada.
    It is a question of accomodation.
    The question of accomodation is about culture.
    Culture is synonymous to field.

    Conditioning is autonomous.
    Accomodation is not.

    Accomodation is voluntary.
    An aspect of will.
    Want does not wait.

  10. #100
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilovetrannies View Post
    I'm an ISFP. I've always been an atheist, even as a kid I could tell it was bullshit from a mile away. My parents are sensers, too and they don't give a damn about religion or god. Anybody, got a problem with it?
    Exactly, we're taking something that should be absolute and turning it into something that's personal preference and debated about over thousands of years. That to me is bullshit. Why even bother, then? I think the debate is fun as just that...to point out counters to the argument while accepting that there is no absolute and this whole faith thing is pointless.


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