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  1. #111
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Astrology is simply a lie. You can confirm this for yourself by ringing the Astronomy Department of the Australian National University.

    And an astronomer will tell you exactly and precisely why it is is lie.

    For heaven's sake, astronomers spend their lives studying the stars. Don't you think that if there was any truth in astrology, they would tell us?

    But be warned, if you do ask an astronomer if there is any truth in astrology, they will simply laugh at you.
    You've not told the truth and admitted you are ignorant about the subject.

    You are ranking

    It is unpleasant to be on the receiving end off

    It makes you look small

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    You've not told the truth and admitted you are ignorant about the subject.

    You are ranking

    It is unpleasant to be on the receiving end off

    It makes you look small
    The two dominant groups here are middle aged women and school children.

    Some of the middle aged women take advantage of the school children to mislead them into astrology.

    This is simply wrong.

    It is wrong scientifically and wrong morally.

    The least we can do is tell school children the truth.

  3. #113
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The two dominant groups here are middle aged women and school children.

    Some of the middle aged women take advantage of the school children to mislead them into astrology.

    This is simply wrong.

    It is wrong scientifically and wrong morally.

    The least we can do is tell school children the truth.
    You've STILL not told the truth - that you are ignorant and expressing and opinion based on that igrnoance

  4. #114
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grasshoppersings View Post
    Astrology gets its power from the occult. The occult is run by the powers of darkness and the prince of darkness is the devil. Stay away from the occult unless you enjoy being lied to. It's a bunch of useless garbage. God created your personality and it has nothing to do with the stars. MBTI tests are an acurate description of how you are wired, much better than any other personality test I've taken. Stick with that and tell the occult "NO!"
    WTH? XD

    I thought this was a bad joke until I didn't see a punchline at the end >.>;;


    As for astrology, let's make an example:

    Chaos theory, which assumes, that if everything in the universe is interconnected in one way or another, and if yeu knew everything which exists, had ever existed, and how they had played a role in affecting each other, yeu could theoretically predict the future.

    This's not considered to be occult material, nor is it considered to be myth or even silly.

    Astrology is a limited understanding of such, the idea that the closest ones to us may have an impact upon how yeu exist can be important.

    There's also a great number of factors which can apply as well which can be shown indirectly THROUGH astrology.

    For example, I'm born in august, this means my conception was in december, around the time the christmas tree was put up. Now technically I'm a Leo, however, that in and of itself is meaningless. It does however, indicate that for a given time of year to be born in, that my genetic parents had a particular disposition to mate at a particular time of year (spring, christmas, a birthday of one, harvest, winter solstace, thanksgiving, other major holidays in various religions either may believe in), which can directly affect me.

    It doesn't mean BECAUSE I'm a leo that I am automatically going to be a certain way, but it does provide evidence of the mindset of the parents at the time of conception.



    Silly things like "reading yeur horroscope" is just foolish. Seriously, EVERYONE who was EVER born on a particular date range will have something in particular happen to them? Durr the only reason horroscopes are even remotely accurate, is because they're vague, broad reaching, and self fulfiling. "Yeu'll have interaction with money sometime in the next week" NO REALLY!? Wow I just wrote a cheque! I Never do that! WOW! Oh wait... I found a penny maybe that's whot it meant! Wait wait wait, I just won $20 on the lotto! Wewts! Oh noes my tv got stolen and I had to buy a new one ;_; Funny how all of these apply >.>;;

    If yeu narrow things down to a particular day, and everything which occured astrologically nearby at that time, then there is a significant possibility that there MAY be affects upon yeur person. Especially if yeur parents were into astrology as well.

    It's not evil, nor is it completely fictional. It is, however, exceedingly misused by most people, and generic "pick yeur sign and there yeu go" routines are just stupid. If yeu did intense study and research, and compared every single aspect interacting togeather, then it may very well be possible to make somewhot vaguely accurate predictions that may in fact be based on several unknown factors.

    How reliable this is, however, is still subject to the person's belief. Self fulfilling prophecies abound. Same goes with religion. If yeu THINK yeu've felt god's presence... guess whot? if someone who goes with astrology felt that, they'd interpret it differently. Same with a hinduist. Or anyone else. Everything's open to interpretation and beaten with a hammer to be crammed into matching yeur belief set.

    If yeu believe it, then it works, not neccesarily because it REALLY works, but because yeu WANT it to work.

    There are, however, certain things which occur despite anyone's religious belief, or supernatural concepts. Whot causes these is anyone's guess.

    Still, if we want to go the christian vs occult route, if GOD created the universe, and everything in it... and GOD created our solar system, and specifically placed THAT number of planets and such in it, in THOSE particular orbits, who's to say he didn't set very complex interactions with our world intentionally, and that astrology isn't just the feeble human attempt at understanding these complex interactions? How is that 'evil'? If anything, yeu'd THINK that god would've done something with them, rather than just toss them in there for the sake of doing so.

    Or maybe the whole thing's random and god doesn't exist. Who knows. All we can do is try to make sense of the patterns presented to us.

    And for that, relying on broad strokes of astrology is not going to get yeu ANYWHERE. If yeu do intense study and calculations, then maybe it will have patterns which can actually be utilized. Yeur 'sign' is virtually meaningless, other than for the provided description of date of conception above.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    You've STILL not told the truth - that you are ignorant and expressing and opinion based on that igrnoance
    I have been visiting the Stromlo Observatory at the Australian National University for thirty years. I have been talking and eating with astronomy students and professors for that long.

    Also I am a member of the Sceptics Society and have been reading about astrology for about the same period of time.

    There is no doubt in my mind nor in the mind of any astronomer that astrology is a cheap and vulgar confidence trick.

    No astronomer would dream of teaching astrology to school children. If they did, they would have to explain themselves to the Astronomical Society.

    And if an astronomer did teach astrology to school children, they would bring ridicule on themselves and their Society.

  6. #116
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I have been visiting the Stromlo Observatory at the Australian National University for thirty years. I have been talking and eating with astronomy students and professors for that long.

    Also I am a member of the Sceptics Society and have been reading about astrology for about the same period of time.

    There is no doubt in my mind nor in the mind of any astronomer that astrology is a vulgar and cheap confidence trick.

    No astronomer would dream of teaching astrology to school children. If they did, they would have to explain themselves to the Astronomical Society.

    And if an astronomer did teach astrology to school children, they would bring ridicule on themselves and their Society.
    You are STILL not telling the truth that you are ignorant of astrology

    You're opening rank asked that I tell the truth. My truth is ....I don't hold much credit with people who express very loud opinions on subject that they know little about.

    You are making yourself into the ranting fool in the corner... knock yourself out... but it's obvious you are ignorant of the subject

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    You are STILL not telling the truth that you are ignorant of astrology

    You're opening rank asked that I tell the truth. My truth is ....I don't hold much credit with people who express very loud opinions on subject that they know little about.

    You are making yourself into the ranting fool in the corner... knock yourself out... but it's obvious you are ignorant of the subject
    Well, maybe you are right - perhaps the answer lies in the stars.

  8. #118
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Virctor,

    You have neither the honesty or personal integrety to own that you are ignorant.... Which, given that you opened with a attack on the honesty of other people, leaves you in a somewhat embarrissing possition... I'm more than happy to leave you there... enjoy!

  9. #119
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Well, maybe you are right - perhaps the answer lies in the stars.
    No need to be rude about it =3

    She does have a point though, even if a very poorly given one.

    Being strictly against something without understanding it fully doesn't really help yeur position. I don't agree with alot of things, but that's because I've put a great deal of effort into understanding them intimately to see why they work the way they do, so i can grasp equally as well how they DON'T work.

    Astrology is one thing I'd like more information on. It needs alot more research before I can truly give accurate information on it; some parts of it *ARE* based on scientific observations (signs = birth TIME, which implies TIME OF CONCEPTION which can be very informative of one's parentage, especially hundreds of years ago before we had indoor lighting, and heaters/air conditioning). Some parts of it may be completely false, trying to fit a pattern into chaos where there is no pattern. However, the design as a whole is based on observation of patterns, which makes it identical to MBTI, it just uses a different set of observations, and assummes things that we don't see as related at all, may in fact have complex correlations we're not privy to.

    Of course, proving that is a very different manner. As with all superstitions and religions, there's always an element of uncertainty and difficulty in explaining things we can't understand. If the stars *DO* have an effect... there's ALOT of stars out there... billions of them in our one galaxy alone... how much of an effect does each have? How complex would these interactions be? Would it even be POSSIBLE to make an accurate portrait of their interactions based solely on circumstantial evidence?

    We both know that astrology can't be accurate perfectly. Anyone who thinks it's flawless is as silly as those who believe the bible is 100% accurate in every last word. Blind faith with zero comprehension.

    However, it doesn't mean that patterns don't exist. There may in fact be some factors beyond our meager understanding applying in ways we can't percieve. Just because we can't explain it accurately, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    But at the same time, even if the stars did have interactions with us on a deeply rooted level, there'd be absolutely no way to fully factor in every single way they did, so any model would be flawed from the start. The trick then, is to see how accurate a model could be made from observations taken.

    And of course it could have no implication at all and mean absolutely nothing. In which case this's all moot. But chances are there is some effect in some indirect ways, or may be interpreting things like time of year, gravitational anomalies and so on in ways that aren't understood by the practictioners either and they're just trying to explain whot they see in the only way they know how.

  10. #120
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    Simple astronomical facts known to every astronomer make nonsense of astrology.

    You can ascertain these facts for yourself by reading a book on astronomy, or you could ring the Astronomy Department of a University and ask to speak to an astronomer. And they would be able to tell you these facts over the phone.

    But what is truly important is that children be taught astronomy rather than astrology, in the same manner they are taught chemistry rather than alchemy, and biology rather than creationism.

    Do we want our children to be taught astrology, alchemy and creationism or do we want them to have an education?

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