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  1. #11
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Some people won't eat any food that kills the plant itself. Why would digging up carrots and eating them be less killing life than killing an animal? You are coming from where you believe, not from a universal law.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    It's got nothing to do with Christianity. There's no requirement that Christians should be vegetarians or even that Christians must be nice. There are several things you have to do to be a Christian (depending on what kind of Christian you ask), but none of them have to do with being nice.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Some people won't eat any food that kills the plant itself. Why would digging up carrots and eating them be less killing life than killing an animal? You are coming from where you believe, not from a universal law.
    Unfortunately I have to come from somewhere when it comes to understanding and beliefs. This is the only position that I'm aware of starting from so it's natural that I'd begin with here when exploring.

    Suppose the ideas of death to plants moves off into the question on what it really means to be a living thing. I've heard people argue that plants are alive before so yeah in that regard I guess we'd be commiting an uncompassionate/loving act.

    I just want to mention here if it's not clear but I'm not a vegetarian. I just want to know how people deal with this issue as I personally feel and know I'm being hypocritical when I eat meat and thinking of "respect life" statements.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    The only passage in the New Testament that addresses eating meat, as far as I know, is a letter from the apostle Paul to the new church in Corinth, answering the question "Is it ok to eat meat that was offered to idols?"

    1 Corinthians 8
    Food Sacrificed to Idols
    1Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge.[a] Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3But the man who loves God is known by God.

    4So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    7But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

    9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

    Tell me if you have questions.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Someone posted this on another forum where I asked this question and I thought it was also quite a good answer.

    Firstly, the Bible tells us that humans are a special creation, and thus are distinct from all other animals - they are to have dominion over the earth. We don't give animals human emotions in the same way we don't call a lion cruel for tearing down a gazelle. Compassion is emotive and thus in biblical terms - a truly human characteristic. We are commanded to have compassion towards one another, not to animals. That said, the principle of stewardship runs alongside dominion, so there seems little reason to kill animals for no reason. To kill an animal as a form of sustenance is entirely biblical.
    It's certainly a different idea but it makes sense. It's quite different to what I'm used to coming from an eastern background.

    Thanks for everyone for your sharing. I've certainly learnt alot from these few replies.

  6. #16
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    Actually there's a whole passage in the New Testament about how some people eat meat for God and some people eat vegetables for God and about how they shouldn't judge each other. I can't wait to find it because it's scriptural basis for saying that Christianity is not about what you eat compared to Judaism which has the Kosher diet, etc.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    The only passage in the New Testament that addresses eating meat, as far as I know, is a letter from the apostle Paul to the new church in Corinth, answering the question "Is it ok to eat meat that was offered to idols?"

    1 Corinthians 8
    Food Sacrificed to Idols
    1Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge.[a] Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3But the man who loves God is known by God.

    4So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    7But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

    9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

    Tell me if you have questions.

    No this is not the only passage in the New Testament about food.

  8. #18
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I dunno about Christianity but there are a lot of laws on slaughter to make it as painless as possible to the animal, like using a very sharp knife, making sure to be fatal quickly, not letting the animal know before, etc, and then there's also that law against cutting off a limb of an animal and eating it while the animal is still alive.

    So you're supposed to be 'kind' to the animal, but that doesn't mean you're not allowed to kill it -- if that makes any sense.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #19
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    So...
    Compassion and love doesn't extend to all living creatures? Even if humans have being held in higher regards.
    I'd advise not killing plants either then.
    Or bugs.

    Or all the microbes that you breathe by the moment and smother in your lungs.
    Or all those germs that those murderous white blood cells in your veins are constantly absorbing, invading, and slaughtering so that you might live.
    Or the tiny organisms you step on as you stumble, rubbing at tired eyes, from the bedroom to the bath every morning.
    And so on.

    Nature is screaming on some inaudible level with all the death that is part of the circle of life.

    ... and this is why I don't consider the eating of meat a big deal, although I suppose the actual cruelties of the meat market (animals raised in certain forms of captivity) is a connected but slightly different issue.

    In Christian thought, there seems to be a reverence placed on creation. Since God created everything, one must respect the creation just as if you would respect the house of a person in which you were a guest. This doesn't mean you can never kill, nor ever eat meat or plants, or do other things to help you survive; it just means accepting that the world isn't yours to devour and plunder to the extent you might wish, that there is a healthy balance to be preserved and other things in this world besides the one who would like to consume, and it honors God to honor the creation.

    ...As far as the commandment in the "Ten Commandments" goes, the actual translation is, "Thou shalt not murder [another human being]," not "THou shalt not kill [any living thing]."

    Punishments carried out by the state (i.e., the nation of Israel at the time) were not considered murder. If a man hit a pregnant woman and she miscarried her child, that was not considered murder either... the aggressor just had to pay the father a fine, he wasn't put to death. The nation went to war with foreign nations and/or defended its borders with ferocity, and again deaths occurred and were accepted; but murder, meanwhile, was specifically murder. You can't equate "death [of people or animals]" to "murder."

    I've never really seen an issue with "Thou shalt not kill" somehow prohibiting the eating of meat. I'm thinking we're over-analyzing here. It was the law of the Jewish people at the time, and I don't think they were confused on it either, since it's pretty obvious they were fine with eating meat at the time.... but again, they did it in balance.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #20
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    An infinitely good, infinitely powerful God could, would, and therefore must create a world without evil. Unnecessary pain is evil. Thus, a world in which creatures that don't feel pain--i.e., plants--may be consumed and provide adequate sustenance to those creatures that consume them is a world without a type of evil, whereas a world where animals devour one another, causing pain to one another in the process, is a world with evil; therefore, God can't possibly create a world that's red in tooth and claw.

    The curse, i.e. natural evil, was imposed by God as a merciful call back from moral evil. The permissibility of eating animals is part of the curse, and therefore serves as a call back from moral evil. Once moral evil is totally removed from mankind, there will be no purpose for natural evil; thus, there will be no reason to eat animals. (Isaiah 11:1-9, NIV)

    1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;
    from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.

    2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him
    the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
    the Spirit of counsel and of power,
    the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD -

    3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD.
    He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes,
    or decide by what he hears with his ears;

    4 but with righteousness he will judge the needy,
    with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth.
    He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth;
    with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked.

    5 Righteousness will be his belt
    and faithfulness the sash around his waist.

    6 The wolf will live with the lamb,
    the leopard will lie down with the goat,
    the calf and the lion and the yearling together;
    and a little child will lead them.

    7 The cow will feed with the bear,
    their young will lie down together,
    and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

    8 The infant will play near the hole of the cobra,
    and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest.

    9 They will neither harm nor destroy
    on all my holy mountain,
    for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD
    as the waters cover the sea.
    The messiah will come through the line of David; sin and death will be removed as a result of his rule, culminating in the earth being filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea; thus, natural evil will be removed, for it will have served its purpose.

    Although it is now permissible to eat animals, I suspect this decision will be reversed in the future.

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