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  1. #11
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    I'd like to know. Really. This is absolutely driving me insane.

    So an ordinary person decides to believe that someone or something created the world greater than themself. They then proceed to worship said deity out of thankfulness, and hope in return that they will receive their creator's blessing. They hope to live a life that will best exemplify the good traits of the human being, and believe they can overcome the bad traits.

    When they are hurt, they believe all isn't lost. When someone dies, they believe they are in a better place. When someone commits a wrong, they can be forgiven.

    It's a healthy thing, when utilized correctly. It's something to fall back on when the rational mode of life can't help you.

    Is that truly a terrible thing to have? I know it can promote ignorance, but that's the fault of the individual practicing the faith, not the faith itself. I just want an explanation. Thank you.
    If you are referring to this forum I'd say that it is difficult to have a good spiritual/religious discussion, because people of different viewpoints often don't listen and show respect to each other. Even if two people are having a good discussion someone else will often try to come in and sabotage it. And...this forum is actually one of the better ones when compared to the rest of the internet. On other sites it is even worse.

    If you are looking at religion in general there is good reason to mistrust it, because it can turn into a large organization. Whenever people get power in a large organization they use it to control, mistreat, and manipulate people in a variety of ways. Religion is no different. I am a member of a church and regularly attend in spite of this. This is because of my admiration of Christ. If it were up to Christianity I would never be a Christian. I am a Christian because of Christ, not because of Christianity.
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  2. #12
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    What's wrong with religion/conservatism/tradition/reactionism is that it can be maladaptive and slow down the progress of civilization.

    When science and reason became the new ways to seek knowledge and truth -- religion dragged its heels.

    Now that Enlightenment thinking has become a staple of Western society, we have liberal theology and sects of religion that allow themselves to progress, but there is still lots of fundamentalism and "old ways" of thinking within religion.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    What's wrong with religion/conservatism/tradition/reactionism is that it can be maladaptive and slow down the progress of civilization.

    When science and reason became the new ways to seek knowledge and truth -- religion dragged its heels.

    Now that Enlightenment thinking has become a staple of Western society, we have liberal theology and sects of religion that allow themselves to progress, but there is still lots of fundamentalism and "old ways" of thinking within religion.
    The enlightenment gave use Marxisms, pragmatism and multiculturalism. Do you know on what grounds these three groups practice science? Lamarckian/class based, utilitarian and racially based. Do you think that is scientific.

  4. #14
    See Right Through Me Bubbles's Avatar
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    If you are looking at religion in general there is good reason to mistrust it, because it can turn into a large organization. Whenever people get power in a large organization they use it to control, mistreat, and manipulate people in a variety of ways. Religion is no different. I am a member of a church and regularly attend in spite of this. This is because of my admiration of Christ. If it were up to Christianity I would never be a Christian. I am a Christian because of Christ, not because of Christianity.
    You know, I wouldn't have thought to have worded it quite like that, but that's very true! Absolute power can corrupt absolutely, whether you're an Emperor or a Pope or a CEO. I also found that was immensely true for religion teachers... >.> And they tended to hate me quite often....haha. It's the beliefs, not the organization behind it, that we believe. If the pope issued something that absolutely colored my faith entirely, I'm not sure I could continue being Catholic. Also, I thought you worded the bolded quite well.

    What's wrong with religion/conservatism/tradition/reactionism is that it can be maladaptive and slow down the progress of civilization.

    When science and reason became the new ways to seek knowledge and truth -- religion dragged its heels.

    Now that Enlightenment thinking has become a staple of Western society, we have liberal theology and sects of religion that allow themselves to progress, but there is still lots of fundamentalism and "old ways" of thinking within religion.
    Oh, I didn't even think of this! That's true enough. Oi, when I think about the people I argue with about women being priests, let me tell you people are scared of change. Really a shame. Religions have the capability to progress, but so often don't, and I can see how someone outside that religion can be frustrated with the slow movement they witness from the sidelines. God knows the people inside it often are.
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  5. #15
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    There's nothing inherently wrong with religion, or conservative ways. If anything, conservatism validates liberalism by making sure that any change made has a better chance of being worth while, a better chance of being actual progress rather than change for the sake of change.

    There's nothing wrong with religion in general, though I won't say about particular religions or religious practices. Religion is people working together to find purpose, understanding, and fulfillment in an ultimate sense that no other pursuit can provide. I can't really imagine anything more human than searching for the greater.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Religion has been the leading cause of world conflict throughout history. There's nothing wrong with religion, there's something wrong with close-minded people. If people were more supportive and open-minded about people having different religious beliefs, then maybe this conflict and tension would not exist.

  7. #17
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    There's nothing inherently wrong with religion, or conservative ways. If anything, conservatism validates liberalism by making sure that any change made has a better chance of being worth while, a better chance of being actual progress rather than change for the sake of change.
    Despite being excessively liberal myself in my own mindset, I fully agree with this and like the way yeu put it.

    If the most 'liberal' people had their way, often it'd just be "This road is boring, let's go down this other path!" and promptly walk off a cliff >.>;

    However... there are times when the balance is a bit too heavily in favour of the conservatives. For example, stem cell research is now to the point that it's been developed where it does NOT require the use of an embryo anymore, and can be done purely through literally any cell int he body. Meaning yeu can take a skin graft, and convert it into acting as though it were stem cells. And yet it's still technically banned and forbidden despite this. Why? Because conservatives are scared of 'playing god' and 'think of the children!' even though there's no children involved >.>;;

    Yes, we'd rather let millions of people die while we drag our heels about actually even starting the research to save their lives. I don't donate anything at all ever to the "zomg cure cancer!" or "cure MS!" or whotever funds, because they aren't allowed to use that money where they need to. It just sits around collecting dust, or being wasted on research that they already KNOW isn't going to work simply so that they have something to do and show off to make it look like they're working hard. They'd LOVE to be able to cure it, but they're not allowed to even try.

    On the other hand, if we didn't, we'd end up with frankenstein's monsters running around. And then the conservatives, despite being the minority enough to allow this to happen, would riot and just cause problems anyway. If we removed all the conservatives, we'd just go wasting money endlessly on bad ideas, and loose all traditions and cultural heritage. The question one must pose to oneself then, becomes, is that really a bad thing?

  8. #18
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    There is nothing wrong with the concept of religion, only how most humans adopt that idea. We often twist it to fit our already soldered worldview, and use it as validation. (Not much unlike MBTI) It is okay to believe in a god, as long as the worldview that stems from that thought is not completely removed from the concrete reality, which i feel many of the world religions are.

    I am an atheist myself, always been, but i sometimes attend church because i feel welcome there, it is a warm place to go to.
    The people are kind and giving, the mood is very positive, and it is a good break from the overly critical and overly rational environment i usually dwell in. YMMV

    I think a very important part of humanity is lost by this extreme focus on the rational and logical in the occident world. I think adults are in constant development like children are, and the abandonment of fairy tales, myths, imagination, dreams, everything that does not fit a logical framework makes a lot of people very one-dimensional in the later years.

    The problem seem to arise from the need to choose one side of the dichotomy. The 'irrational' religious or the 'rational' atheist. The one is not allowed to travel into the others realm.
    If you do not pick a side you will feel cognitive dissonance. It is easiest to pick a side and stay there.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    I think it's very healthy to be thankful for each passing day. This way you take your life less granted and can appreciate it more. You can get much more out of life, if you acknowledge your own fragility and mortality, and live every day as if it was your last. God is a great device to be thankful to.

    When things go bad and everything falls on your shoulders, it's nice to know that you are not alone, ever. Best thing about being a child is that there's always someone watching over you, taking care of everything. Beliving that God carries you through harsh times makes it all so much easier. You don't have to carry all that weight alone.

    And whenever someone close to you dies, it's relieves that terrible sorrow if you know that someone is going for some place better. And one day you might have a chance to meet that person again.

    As you can see, faith in God can do much good. But only as long as he's giving you support. When he becomes your guide and master, you've lost your free will. When you live according to the rules of your religion, you are no longer making choices yourself. You are not living your own life, but someone else's.

    So I can really understand why faith can be so important to some people, but religion should not be. To be honest, religions shouldn't even exists. Everyone should have their own personal god and creator. And it should be totally private. If you bring your own belives upon others, you are just trying to prove your own superiority. This goes to atheistic NTs too.

    So, keep your god to yourself, and don't let it come in your way of living your life.
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  10. #20
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Taking things for granted isn't bad. It means yeu've come to rely and expect on them and shows a deep level of trust and understanding. True, it may be dangerous to take LIFE for granted, but this's often transposed elsewhere to other things such as people, like if someone takes their spouse for granted, it means they can no longer truly imagine their world without them. People just seem to think it has negative connotations when it generally is a good thing.

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