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  1. #1
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Default Religious belief as a mental illness (with your hosts, Erm & Eck!)

    Well, I don't know, it just seems, pretty obvious.

    The fact that so much people seem to be striken with worrying delusions which seem not to fit with the observable universe, resistance to negative evidence such as the lack of any observable effect of prayers...

    Actually, "Temporal Lobe Epilepsy disorder" can turn people extremely religious and practice of religious chants or prayer reduces the frontal lob activity, which in turn augments temporal lobe activity.

    Well there's much to tell, but i'm a bit lazy right now.

    I do by the way, truly consider most religious people to be mentally ill, this isn't some attempt at provocation and I'm not trying to insult anybody or force my own beliefs onto others.
    I don't understand the apparent immunity religious beliefs get when they after all fit all the basic symptoms of a pathological illness using our brains architecture to spread through cultural endoctrination in the form of a complex Meme.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

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    It really depends on the religion.

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    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    It really depends on the religion.
    Well, not if they all use common brain structures and specific wirings as a mean to propagate.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Well, not if they all use common brain structures as a mean to propagate.
    The truth does that too.

    It'll have to be specifics. Filtering the crazy from the sane. I don't think generalisations work here.

  5. #5
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    The truth does that too.
    So, you argue that a guy saying that he knows there's a blue elephant drinking a soda on mars and called bob even though he never saw it would be the same thing than a guy observing that there's a cloud in the sky and having everybody else agree because both information are processed by the brain?
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  6. #6
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Doesn't the fact that people have been like this for a very very long time and that we've only recently begun to change it suggest that this is a more natural state for people to be in than a 'rational' one?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    So, you argue that a guy saying that he knows there's a blue elephant drinking a soda on mars and called bob even though he never saw it would be the same thing than a guy observing that there's a cloud in the sky and having everybody else agree because both information are processed by the brain?
    Both use common brain structures to propagate. They are both memes.

    Besides, religious and non-religious alike are part of the cloud example you write. What many religious people are guilty of, non-religious are as well. Obvious, but it shows how it's just the same old debate.

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    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    It'll have to be specifics. Filtering the crazy from the sane. I don't think generalisations work here.
    It's cheating if you add text after I answered.
    Well, all you've been using are generalisations.

    On the one hand, nobody ever could satisfyingly prove any supernatural phenomena and every serious study realised in controlled environnements have failed.
    On the other hand scientists can make people feel like there's a 'presence', and live strong religious revelations by applying electric current to the temporal lobe. Some genes can also make people more susceptible to religious belief, there's an iq correlation, and higher iq is correlated with healthy brain developpement in children and foetuses, atheists have a higher average iq than believers. and so on
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  9. #9
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Both use common brain structures to propagate. They are both memes.

    Besides, religious and non-religious alike are part of the cloud example you write. What many religious people are guilty of, non-religious are as well. Obvious, but it shows how it's just the same old debate.
    .. COULD YOU STOP USING VAGUE AND BARELY DEFENDABLE GENERALISATIONS

    thank you
    I gave a few specific examples, all you did was to use supervenience and say that 'both are ideas'. Well, a fly and a man are both animals, yet we don't usually consider them to be the same just because they are both dna based multicellular systems.

    Everything always has commonalities since we seem to live in a UNIVERSE, it doesn't mean they're relevant without some sort of explanation.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    It's cheating if you add text after I answered.
    Well, all you've been using are generalisations.
    I didn't add it after you had answered. It was an edit though.

    You too have used generalisations.

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    On the one hand, nobody ever could satisfyingly prove any supernatural phenomena and every serious study realised in controlled environnements have failed.
    Not true. "Supernatural" is a silly term to use, as anything that happens is natural.

    Gravity was "supernatural" at one point in time. A force with infinite range was seen as absurd. It has been proven, to a degree at least.

    Yes, a lot of religious beliefs have been disproven. Most have not, however. A lot of atheistic beliefs have been disproven, also.

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    On the other hand scientists can make people feel like there's a 'presence', and live strong religious revelations by applying electric current to the temporal lobe. Some genes can also make people more susceptible to religious belief, there's an iq correlation, and higher iq is correlated with healthy brain developpement in children and foetuses, atheists have a higher average iq than believers. and so on
    What do those experiments prove, do you think?

    Healthy, High IQ. All vague things. I'm sure I don't need to state some of the absurdities with IQ, nor with many atheistic beliefs.

    Keep in mind most religions are not like the Abrahamic ones, which are what the majority of these experiments are performed on.

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    I gave a few specific examples, all you did was to use supervenience and say that 'both are ideas'. Well, a fly and a man are both animals, yet we don't usually consider them to be the same just because they are both dna based multicellular systems.
    All I said was that both are memes. All you said was that one was a meme. I was trying to show how useless that point was. Since the truth is a meme as well, it doesn't differentiate between the true and the false.

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