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  1. #51
    Your time is gonna come. Oom's Avatar
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    Relating religion to mental illness is a bit flawed. A person can be immediately cured of religion (falling from grace and whatnot), and fall into religion (finding god!), but some mental illnesses go untreated. Religion is a choice, mental illness is not. There are too many holes in this discussion to count.

  2. #52
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paperoceans View Post
    I personally think one does not relate with the other... generally.
    one what ?
    as far as religion goes well, it's a text book case of mass delusion. Most arguing is social conditioning etc.

    If it's science and the 'metaphysical'. Somehow nobody ever observes any effect, yet people believe their god acts on the universe, so it should obviously be relevant for the physical universe and so science, which is based on the observation of that same universe.
    If a god doesn't interact with our physical world, then well, it's just irrelevant, and anyway anybody claiming knowledge of such a being would just be making a random claim that would happen to be 'true' somewhere in the metaverse. And I'm not even sure 'truth' is a term that fits objects that don't interact with us or our universe.

    But that's all very obvious.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  3. #53
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oom View Post
    Relating religion to mental illness is a bit flawed. A person can be immediately cured of religion (falling from grace and whatnot), and fall into religion (finding god!), but some mental illnesses go untreated. Religion is a choice, mental illness is not. There are too many holes in this discussion to count.
    The definition of illness has nothing to do with the ways to cure it or difficulties to cure it. Take that for a hole, cheese boy. And if you think people easily give up their religions or any hardened belief be it religious or its opposite, well, i'm not sure you've ever seen a 'true believer'.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  4. #54
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    There are just as many religious atheists as there are Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Protestants and "Spiritual" Oprah-ists .

    I see the same psychotic lay throughout all of them. Then again, there are also some very sane and thoughtful people in all "religions".

  5. #55
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Oh and to answer dunno whose question, I hoped to start an interesting discussion + maybe amuse myself some instead of arguing about obvious points and hearing the usual 'but society taught me to respect ppl if they put a 'religion' stamp on whatever they do or say'.

    Or 'some religious people are very sane'. Well duh, the issue is the trends of such groups (and groups in general) are heavily influenced by those one hears the most, so the extremists. + seriously, what sort of argument is that. Tell me about memes or something and how information considered as a social norme spreads to different kinds of people. Tell me why ,if 'metaphysical experiences' are supposed to be based in something else than 'the body' all these 'religious facts' are somehow either excessively elusive or testable in a lab and explainable like out of body experiences and others.

    Or people who just can't think and are apparently proud of it or think that if somebody dares to use 'complicated words' it means they're bragging, because obviously information always comes in preschool formated packages.

    So apparently i didn't get any occasion to start about biological anthropology, the brain/sensory feed back loop role in the biosphere's history. The evolution of the human brain and some of the externalities caused. philosophy, philosophy of science, defining what the scientific method is and why most people only seem to see the 'science' stamp instead of actually trying to understand what its about etc etc etc.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  6. #56
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Or your tendency for animism and how our consciousness makes the notion of non willed original causality disturbing and its opposite tempting. How if we see somebody slip on the floor when entering a room we'll tend to consider some personnal character to be responsible first (clumsiness etc) rather than checking if the floor hadn't just been waxed.

    Paganism, the desire for human beings to control/influence the elements.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  7. #57
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    the Nietzchean will to power(i know it's post mortem and from notes but well) , the emotion of fear, the competitive nature of life and how it related to how an apersonnal inhuman universe is not a view some people want to live with, the alternative views. How people will either consider a godless universe a freeing concept while some will think the opposite. The links with upbringing and family structures.
    Freud, erikson and developmental psychology...
    the sheer beauty and joy of trying to grasp the complexity of life, the universe and everything ()
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  8. #58
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    a kid looking at the sky and wondering what's up there.

    The blindfolding of consciousness.

    That's what I wanted this thread to be about, my sincerest apologies for assuming those were points worth talking about, instead arguing about the definition of words. Because really, I'm feeling sorry right now. So yes, I'm an entp, I like to argue, sue me.

    fuck, let's just make it my blog or something.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  9. #59
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    When I was working the cash register at a burger joint during hs, we had an on-again/off-again bogo special on chicken sandwiches....after adding a medium drink, the total ended up being $6.66.

    I lost count of how many people would buy something extra just so the total wouldn't be equivalent to the "sign of the devil"("number of the beast", "SATAN!"). People seriously bought food that they had originally not wanted in order to pay an amount that was greater or less than 6.66. OH, and the lectures....."You know what that number means, right?" "No" "It means THE DEVIL" "wha-???....Noooooooo"

    There were plenty of people who either: ignored it and paid, joked about it and paid, freaked out and paid more. I think this anecdote pretty much sums up the three human religious food groups: Oblivious, Practical, Retardedly Superstitious.

    No offense.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  10. #60
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    It is not a rational mistake to see everything as coming from divine origins or from chaotic chance

    However, it is a rational mistake to speculate about divine possibilities on the basis of human tendencies, lapses in judgement, or [what you perceive to be] ignorance.

    I have met lots of people with spiritual beliefs who are not well versed in logic, but I have also met nearly as many people like yourself who cannot see the fallacy caused by their own bias--such people prize intelligence, desire to be viewed as and to view themselves as intelligent, and would not pass up an opportunity to say, "I am intelligent, you are not, you have spiritual beliefs and I do not, therefore spirituality is for the unintelligent".

    What is more foolish, to know what is not or cannot be known, or to pretend to know everything?

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