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  1. #31
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    After going through the first two pages I kind of got sick of the bickering >.>;;

    For referance though, most people who "follow a religion" have no clue whot it is they actually follow. They don't understand their beliefs, they don't even try to grasp why whot they believe is the way it is. They just assume it's infalliable (delusional at best), or go along with whotever they're told (inferiority complex?), while some use it as an excuse to 'prove' that they are 'better' than everything else as they are a 'child of god' (pseudo-god complexes whee!), or do so because they fear hell/afterlife/retribution for sins, etc, despite that these 'punishments' are intangible and can't be proven.

    Are 'most' religious people little more than suffering from mental illness? Probably.

    Does that mean ALL are? Not at all, religion in and of itself isn't BAD or anything, it's just that the structured organizations ARE. If yeu take a look at things from a very pragmatic and rational viewpoint, and try to learn religion as a science, rather than a myth, I don't think that can be considered mental illness anymore, merely an expression of attempting to identify, quantify and understand one's surroundings in more depth. Which's perfect normal, to be honest.

    It's when yeu don't want to understand yeur surroundings and are happy with just making up silly things (thunder is angels bowling? wth? Could be worse... I knew one person who honestly believed that their poo was pushed out their butt by tiny itallian men with brooms for some reason... don't ask, I didn't) to explain away stuff without actually trying to figure it out on purpose. If yeu stop caring about trying to understand things, and just accept them as they are, that immediately tells me that yeu have stopped learning and have no intention of continuing to broaden yeur horizons. Sometimes yeu have to just accept things as they are, but it doesn't mean yeu shouldn't question them as well. It's possible to enjoy something just 'as it is', yet still want to learn more about it too. Some people just don't get that and figure questioning the nature of god or the universe is somehow 'wrong'. That, is something I shall never understand, especially when their own holy books, torah, qoran (I can't spell it), bible, etc, tell them to question things and they will one day become godlike in their own way.

  2. #32
    garbage
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Can you give me an example of a religion that doesn't make statements about a creation myth, morality and an unobservable beyond/realm of godlike creatures?
    I doubt I can give you one that doesn't cover morality. Why is morality an issue?

  3. #33
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    These days, there is a very wide spectrum of religious belief, ranging from 'practically nonreligious' to 'insane'. As the years progress, the crazy end of the spectrum will continue to slowly phase itself out.

    The tactic of "Is [insert an ideology you don't like] a mental illness?" is a kind of weak, but on the fundamentalist end of the religious spectrum, it's clear that their beliefs are causing distress in some of their adherents in how they relate to the modern world. It's especially damaging when a child grows up and doesn't fit their religions narrow view of how one should be. This internal/external conflict and pressure isn't mentally healthy.

  4. #34
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    There are several unproved hypotheses used in science and mathematics which people use every day, and which are taught in school. Are all the people that use mathematics with these theorems mentally ill?
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  5. #35
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    These days, there is a very wide spectrum of religious belief, ranging from 'practically nonreligious' to 'insane'. As the years progress, the crazy end of the spectrum will continue to slowly phase itself out.

    The tactic of "Is [insert an ideology you don't like] a mental illness?" is a kind of weak, but on the fundamentalist end of the religious spectrum, it's clear that their beliefs are causing distress in some of their adherents in how they relate to the modern world. It's especially damaging when a child grows up and doesn't fit their religions narrow view of how one should be. This internal/external conflict and pressure isn't mentally healthy.
    I agree with all this.

    I think the endpoints definitely show themselves to be unbalanced (as the scale approaches infinity), and they also end up making their position and cultural involvement obsolete eventually.

    I think general religion, on the other hand, ends up being productive in practical ways in people's lives in SOME way, which is why it thrives regardless of its degree of veracity or any con's that come with it. And to label the general practice of any unempirical belief as evidence of mental insanity? It seems like trying to make too much of too little; I don't know if this could ever be shown adequately, or what might have to be damned as insanity along with it to keep the logic consistent, or even what practical value this has in living life and building community and reaching one's own fulfillment as a person.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #36
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    I doubt I can give you one that doesn't cover morality. Why is morality an issue?
    Don't ask me what happened but somehow i found that thread by googling myself and 'growing up is for kid' (no particular reason).

    To answer your question in a few words, morality is an issue because the attachement one has to a moral system has priority over the reasons for that moral system to exist, creating numerous issues such as keeping a moral rule that isn't adapted to the current state of modern societies etc.

    More rational ethical systems are far superior than what is usually defined as morals.
    Of course one could argue definitions since that term has been used in many different contexts but I guess most people would agree that morals implies emotional attachement to a value code as a dominant trait rather than a support for something less self referent. While ethics imply a reasoned systematical study of the justifications for and implications of behavioral codes.
    And I'm not implying cold reasoning either, btw, one can reason with emotions. It's when the emotions define what FACT is true or what SYSTEM is better that things go seriously wrong. It's a bit like defining the experience "green" with an equation, not a good move.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  7. #37
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    What can I say - pseudo-intellectual bullshit. :rolli:

  8. #38
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Mental illness is serious. You don't just get to label something like "religion" as mental illness because it sounds cute that way.

    Pick a more appropriate, equally as offensive term that might fit better, please.

  9. #39
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    What can I say - pseudo-intellectual bullshit. :rolli:
    was that one of these games where you answer your own questions?

    Buy yourself a friend or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Mental illness is serious. You don't just get to label something like "religion" as mental illness because it sounds cute that way.

    Pick a more appropriate, equally as offensive term that might fit better, please.
    naah, it sorts of fit.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  10. #40
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I believe that there is a great vacuous, omniscient Vagina in the sky, watching us, waiting to suck us in its vortex.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

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