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Thread: When someone refuses logic?

  1. #31
    Supreme Allied Commander Array Take Five's Avatar
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    Aug 2008


    Only a fool argues with a crazy man. Only a crazy man argues with a fool.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  2. #32
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Array Nocapszy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007


    here's what you do.
    test him.
    put him on the edge of a cliff and tell him to jump off.
    if he refuses, ask why.
    when he inevitably gives a logical response, rub it in his face.

    if not, the annoying bastard is jumping out of your life.
    we fukin won boys

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array run's Avatar
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    Dec 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Just say you can talk to plants.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Look him square in the eye and tell him, "Snorrkle!' Make it sound convincing.
    These are statements aboutt he validity of logic to the physical world. He doesn't see why it should apply to philosophy.

    Quote Originally Posted by 47Alpha View Post
    Individuals these days I actually view as PAIRS
    Siamese-Twins all of us upstairs.

  4. #34
    Filthy Apes! Array Kalach's Avatar
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    Dec 2008


    Well see, that's just you guys being Ti slap happy. He's INFJ, so his Ti is there to bring sufficiency to his feeling about what's there, but more importantly to let him escape from anyone bounding his feeling by "truth". Thus, he uses reason to say he doesn't need to use reason. See? He's saying it's true that he doesn't have to say any particular thing is truely true. (Because feeling is the true guide, not truth.) Thus, as you should rightly point out, by his rule, there is no truth to feeling. He will presumably agree with this, saying that, sure, there is no truth to feeling, just the feeling of the feeling and that is compelling enough. And if he has any guts at all, he will after some time allow that indeed he has for many years now been working out the true relationships between feelings, and he's gotten pretty good at it, but he just doesn't want to come right out and say what he believes is true, not until someone generates the right feeling test for him, by perhaps for example, mocking his values as hard as he's mocking yours.

    INFJs, pfft. Nancys.

  5. #35


    you know Kalach,

    I have noticed something odd as of late-you pointed this out awhile back. Sorry folks I am taking a meta view of this thread and mixing it with lots of other stuff.

    K pointed out you should be very careful when you take folks-like INFJs, ENTPs, ENFPs or any others who mix the judging functions as thier middle two preferred cognitive functions.

    In that argument it was with respect to pure logic vs pure feeling and if I recall K suggested only observing Fe/Fi doms or Te/Ti doms as us folks in the middle, likely cant seperate things as cleanly.

    So letely-sort of like what you see with this INFJ-I notice my brain can come to two endpoints on a topic-The Te answer and the Fi answer. They are in conflict, yet both are "right" in my mind.

    My bestf entp, even more oddly, says this has happened to her as of late as well-an Fi answer and a Ti answer which are in conflict-yet both are "right".

    It's like having your brain split with an axe. So maybe this guy does this-maybe he can see the "right" Fe answer, acknowledge the Ti inconsistancy, and be okay with that result in his own mind-even though logically inconsistant?

  6. #36
    Filthy Apes! Array Kalach's Avatar
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    Dec 2008


    Well, I'll tell you what I find interesting, and a tad upsetting, it's that Te users approach this issue really differently from, I guess, Ti users. The Te user will start talking about what's going on between the people or inside the person, and not talk too much about the actual issue, namely, is there a reasoned answer to the rejection of reason. A hypothesis is posited, namely that one can take whatever position one on whim chooses, and the answer is... nothing?

    Pragmatically we can know that the INFJ is merely announcing an ENTP position, thus forcing any ENTPs in the vicinity to start investigating the roots of truth, which will end up being feeling, I guess, and then everyone's back on INFJ turf and the INFJ gets to speak their real piece.

    So... I dunno. What is the Ti users' real answer to their own quite common claim that nothing is ultimately true?

    (And is the world really that divided into X-users and Y-users, so much so that the X side normally can't provide a satisfactory answer to the Y side, and vice versa?? What a crock!)

    (And on the other issue, yeah, I suppose it is quite common for people with two judgment functions as number 2 and 3 to mix up the language, using feeling language to talk argue and argument language to feel. I guess. Or maybe everyone does that too? An INFJ I know once retorted that she wasn't that interested in feeling, it was truth she sought!)

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