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  1. #21
    meat popsicle r.a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughingebony View Post
    Is logic inherent within the universe, or is it simply our way of describing patterns that seem to occur in nature?
    in the human, rational sense it is a way to describe things, but there has to be different levels of logic beyond our intelligence or perception. to place limits on anything is to cheat ourselves out of growth and evolution.
    "All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is destructive and evil. Leaders destroy the followers and the followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary."
    -
    J.Krishnamurti

  2. #22
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughingebony View Post
    Is logic inherent within the universe, or is it simply our way of describing patterns that seem to occur in nature?
    You're asking a Te user?

    What's the difference between patterns we seem to see and actual order?

    If institutionalised too deep in one's philosophy, the worry that we can't actually know enough to know if we know enough does at some point end up creating such a burden of bizarre and upsetting language longcuts--postmodernism, for example--that perhaps sometimes it's worth it just to get it over with and say, I know what reality is. One day we bite the bullet and accept to induct over the gaps.

    It's not for everyone. And if everyone actually did it we'd all be the dumber for it. But it's something to think about anyway.

  3. #23
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    You're asking a Te user?

    What's the difference between patterns we seem to see and actual order?

    If institutionalised too deep in one's philosophy, the worry that we can't actually know enough to know if we know enough does at some point end up creating such a burden of bizarre and upsetting language longcuts--postmodernism, for example--that perhaps sometimes it's worth it just to get it over with and say, I know what reality is. One day we bite the bullet and accept to induct over the gaps.

    It's not for everyone. And if everyone actually did it we'd all be the dumber for it. But it's something to think about anyway.
    I like.

  4. #24
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    The Te Way: it's such a slippery slope down to false certainty.

    And it's why I can never again take myself seriously as a philosopher.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    What's funny is that Js wonder the same thing about you for valuing internal logical consistency over external goal/schedule completion.

    That's the difference--the fact that you don't organize your external world into structured, scheduled, digestible pieces is just as illogical to Js as it is to you that they refuse to logically structure their inner worlds.

    They don't need internal logic because they're too busy applying logic to their external schedules and goals.
    Very true. Pretty much anything goes in my internal world. It is ,in a sense, uncontrolled with theories and insights arising from what appears to be nothing. The external world is much easier to control, predict and manipulate.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post

    What's the difference between patterns we seem to see and actual order?
    Agreed.

  7. #27
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post
    No he doesn't *have* to follow logic, but making up stories isn't philosophy.
    Most people are not interested in the truth. They would like to believe in whatever they want to believe in. The fact that organized religion has been as influential as it is today is signatory of how highly represented people of this ilk are in our society.

    Your friend is one step ahead of most people. His logical reasoning skills are developed enough to enable him to make a coherent statement about the nature of his reasoning. Specifically, he is able to say that he does not care about making any sense. The thoughts of most people are too vague and confused to communicate with this kind of clarity.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  8. #28
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post
    No he doesn't *have* to follow logic, but making up stories isn't philosophy.
    Sure it is, the MATRIX is a great example of a made up story based on the philosophical allegory of Plato's cave.

    You with your empirical/materialistic attitude share the common western philosophy built upon aristotle's beliefs that the universe is logical.

  9. #29
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    SOMEONE....REFUSING LOGIC ????
    Welcome to my world. More than ever I am amazed at what one part of our mind keeps another part from seeing.
    Creating an entity that lives and lies to itself often, as it lives and breathes. Two Hemispheres or something else.
    Individuals these days I actually view as PAIRS
    Siamese-Twins all of us upstairs.

  10. #30
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Just say you can talk to plants.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

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