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  1. #11
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    Run, sometimes I've said stuff like your OP mentioned when I just got frustrated and tired of trying to deal with raw logic, which is incredibly difficult for me. It's not that I didn't actually care, it's just that thinking that way was such a brain twist that I had to stop for a while, whether two days or two months.

    Also, I don't know how your INFJ friend works, but I have a lot easier time when I can focus on one concept and study it, and then come back to an INTP and discuss it after I'm informed. INTP's run me around in circles and make me hate myself for my incompetence otherwise. I'm not good on my feet with that sort of thing. I need to really immerse myself in it before I can say something without making a fool of myself.
    I-71%, N-80%, F-74%, P-96%

  2. #12
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post
    I have an INFJ friend who claims he's not under the bounds of logic,
    and that he can just believe whatever he wants

    He says some weird stuff, like "maybe the world just poofed into existence out of nowhere", which defies the principle of sufficient reason. And, "I am a moral skeptic, but right now I will pick a side and defend moral relativism" -- If you are a moral skeptic, defend skepticism. And the best of all

    Me: "Those two statements are incompatible."
    Greg: "I can say whatever I want!"

    He didn't argue that they weren't incompatible. He argued that it didn't matter that they were incompatible.

    Problem is, anything I say to show to him that he has to follow logic, also involves logic.

    The thing that worries me is, what if people like him end up with power of some kind?
    Why does it matter whether he thinks the world poofed out of nowhere? See I like these sort of thought trains. Sure, it's probably not true, but it doesn't hurt to try it on- and it allows seeing the world from a bit of a new angle. Logic isn't always true.

  3. #13
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    What's funny is that Js wonder the same thing about you for valuing internal logical consistency over external goal/schedule completion.

    That's the difference--the fact that you don't organize your external world into structured, scheduled, digestible pieces is just as illogical to Js as it is to you that they refuse to logically structure their inner worlds.

    They don't need internal logic because they're too busy applying logic to their external schedules and goals.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #14
    meat popsicle r.a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    They don't need internal logic because they're too busy applying logic to their external schedules and goals.
    where it counts when dealing with a world with no shortage of detail-oriented, rationally-centered people and societal constructs.
    "All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is destructive and evil. Leaders destroy the followers and the followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary."
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    J.Krishnamurti

  5. #15
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ Yes I'm slowly learning this myself.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #16
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post
    I have an INFJ friend who claims he's not under the bounds of logic,
    and that he can just believe whatever he wants

    He says some weird stuff, like "maybe the world just poofed into existence out of nowhere", which defies the principle of sufficient reason. And, "I am a moral skeptic, but right now I will pick a side and defend moral relativism" -- If you are a moral skeptic, defend skepticism. And the best of all

    Me: "Those two statements are incompatible."
    Greg: "I can say whatever I want!"

    He didn't argue that they weren't incompatible. He argued that it didn't matter that they were incompatible.

    Problem is, anything I say to show to him that he has to follow logic, also involves logic.

    The thing that worries me is, what if people like him end up with power of some kind?
    I wonder, if you would turn around and try to prove the big bang right after expressing how logically ridiculous you think the idea of reality poofing into our existence is.

    Why is it that you have to show him he "HAS TO FOLLOW LOGIC"?
    I don't think you have to right to tell anyone else what they have to do.

    I think this is more about the op rejecting anything other than logic than his friend rejecting logic. Maybe he was just mirroring your actions to try to show you how stupid you were being. The infj is not that stupid, for a feeling type they are quite adept at using logic, at least the one I know.

    Look into the world of quantum mechanics and you will see that logic does not run the universe. And hey if the big bang is by some chance true then he was more inline with the truth than you....

  7. #17
    Senior Member run's Avatar
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    No he doesn't *have* to follow logic, but making up stories isn't philosophy.

  8. #18
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ What if they illustrate philosophical concepts?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #19
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post
    I have an INFJ friend who claims he's not under the bounds of logic,
    and that he can just believe whatever he wants

    He says some weird stuff, like "maybe the world just poofed into existence out of nowhere", which defies the principle of sufficient reason. And, "I am a moral skeptic, but right now I will pick a side and defend moral relativism" -- If you are a moral skeptic, defend skepticism. And the best of all

    Me: "Those two statements are incompatible."
    Greg: "I can say whatever I want!"
    Look him square in the eye and tell him, "Snorrkle!' Make it sound convincing.

    "What?" says he.

    "Just following your lead, buddy, and feeling pretty good about it too. Black beans eat the blue peter."


    Not a whole lot of communication goes on if one eschews meaningful connections, aka logic, between utterances.


    Besides which, he's actually just voicing what it is to be Ni dominant: intuition comes first, expression comes second, and one gets to feeling as if one is prior to logic. Which one isn't. If you want to ping him on his foolishness, claim that there is no reason to love. Observe not just disillusion, but that literally there is no reason behind love, it's just inherently random.

  10. #20
    Senior Member laughingebony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach
    intuition comes first, expression comes second, and one gets to feeling as if one is prior to logic. Which one isn't.
    Is logic inherent within the universe, or is it simply our way of describing patterns that seem to occur in nature?

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