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  1. #11
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    There are/were lots of "logical" people who believe in Christianity, and a lot of other things that can't be proven or disproven. Sometimes beliefs don't fit with "logic"

    It feels good to feel better than other people sometimes though.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by therationaledge View Post
    Talk him out of his beliefs? You make this pejorative. If a child believed that a boogeyman was going to kill them for wearing two kinds of clothing, why is it wrong to point out there is no proof of this?

    Im not trying to convert anyone, but I have a problem with flawed logic.
    And I'm alwasy willing to argue my beliefs, its hones them, and allows for new concepts.

    Convert; To persuade or induce to adopt a particular religion, faith, or belief: convert pagans to Christianity; was converted to pacifism by the war.

    Freethought to me is more a process for forming a belief rather than one in itself, as two freethinkers can be drastically different.

    Freethinking is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that opinions should be formed on the basis of science, logic, and reason, and should not be influenced by authority, tradition, or any other dogma. The cognitive application of freethought is known as freethinking, and practitioners of freethought are known as freethinkers.

    I'm happy for you. But people don't want you going around enforcing your judgement of their flawed logic on them any more than you want them enforcing their judgement of your flawed morality, no matter the semantics.

    Some people just don't want to engage in the philosophical debate. Just accept it and move on to someone else.

  3. #13
    Senior Member therationaledge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Yes, also, it's a pointless waste of time to argue with certain people about certain things, especially if they have a clear problem with logic. You're not going to magically save them or teach them anything, so why bother?
    Because it educates me.

    Also, if someon said "i am not comfertable/ something else, in discussing this, i wouldnt"
    "You would lose your money," Sherlock Holmes remarked calmly. "As for the article I wrote it myself."

    "You!"

    "Yes, I have a turn both for observation and for deduction. The theories which I have expressed there, and which appear to you to be so chimerical are really extremely practical -- so practical that I depend upon them for my bread and cheese."

  4. #14
    Senior Member therationaledge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I'm happy for you. But people don't want you going around enforcing your judgement of their flawed logic on them any more than you want them enforcing their judgement of your flawed morality, no matter the semantics.

    Some people just don't want to engage in the philosophical debate. Just accept it and move on to someone else.

    Enforcing? Bad choice of words. I hardly threatend to butcher his family if he didnt believe me.
    I was not impolite, I did not personally attack him in anyway. It was his choice to debate with me.

    Basically YOUR arguements are that I should not argue because

    1. It is the same as trying to convert someone (though it isnt)
    2. I am trying to enforce it on someone (though I wasnt)
    3. I was being rude (though I did what you do in a debate, and did not attack him personally)
    4. That i should argue using logic with someon who is less logical (which I dont agree with)
    5. That i shouldnt argue with someone who doesn watn to (which i wasnt, and agree with.)
    "You would lose your money," Sherlock Holmes remarked calmly. "As for the article I wrote it myself."

    "You!"

    "Yes, I have a turn both for observation and for deduction. The theories which I have expressed there, and which appear to you to be so chimerical are really extremely practical -- so practical that I depend upon them for my bread and cheese."

  5. #15
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    So what is your point of posting this? You want people to just agree with you that "fundamentalists" aren't logical?

  6. #16
    Senior Member therationaledge's Avatar
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    The only point I had was to post it and then discuss it
    Which we are now.
    Succsess.
    "You would lose your money," Sherlock Holmes remarked calmly. "As for the article I wrote it myself."

    "You!"

    "Yes, I have a turn both for observation and for deduction. The theories which I have expressed there, and which appear to you to be so chimerical are really extremely practical -- so practical that I depend upon them for my bread and cheese."

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by therationaledge View Post
    Enforcing? Bad choice of words. I hardly threatend to butcher his family if he didnt believe me.
    I was not impolite, I did not personally attack him in anyway. It was his choice to debate with me.

    Basically YOUR arguements are that I should not argue because

    1. It is the same as trying to convert someone (though it isnt)
    2. I am trying to enforce it on someone (though I wasnt)
    3. I was being rude (though I did what you do in a debate, and did not attack him personally)
    4. That i should argue using logic with someon who is less logical (which I dont agree with)
    5. That i shouldnt argue with someone who doesn watn to (which i wasnt, and agree with.)
    Actually, the second convo seemed pretty impolite to me, and had a strong overtone of "I want to show you how stupid your religious beliefs are."

    In fact, the title of trying to have a logical conversation with a fundamentalist implies that you assume that fundamentalists are never logical and you are superior to them because you are.

    I'm sure they feel the same way about sinners who won't meet them half way in a conversion convo about accepting Jesus as your personal savior.

    Besides, logic doesn't apply to all situations, like love and religious beliefs usually.

  8. #18
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    It's hard to debate things logically when someone is being intentionally obtuse, and has zero ability to comprehend. I'll let you figure out who I'm talking about, I'll be back in a couple of days.



  9. #19
    Senior Member therationaledge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Actually, the second convo seemed pretty impolite to me, and had a strong overtone of "I want to show you how stupid your religious beliefs are."

    In fact, the title of trying to have a logical conversation with a fundamentalist implies that you assume that fundamentalists are never logical and you are superior to them because you are.

    I'm sure they feel the same way about sinners who won't meet them half way in a conversion convo about accepting Jesus as your personal savior.

    Besides, logic doesn't apply to all situations, like love and religious beliefs usually.
    Now we are arguing about diff beliefs, because i DO think that logic applies EVERYwhere.
    And I am implying that fundamentalists arent logical, but mostly in religious areas. NEver did i question anything else.

    And two people "feeling" anything does not make it true. For me either.

    And if you think that I feel superior, then you are right. About that one thing, at least. And there are those who are superior to me, in certain things.
    Many things, in fact.

    If you can lift 100 pounds more than someone are you not superior IN THAT ASPECT than the other person?
    Im just being honest because you asked a question.
    But do i feel superior to everyone and in every way to my friend? No.
    "You would lose your money," Sherlock Holmes remarked calmly. "As for the article I wrote it myself."

    "You!"

    "Yes, I have a turn both for observation and for deduction. The theories which I have expressed there, and which appear to you to be so chimerical are really extremely practical -- so practical that I depend upon them for my bread and cheese."

  10. #20
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    Oh wait. I also want to explain to you what your friend wasn't successful at getting across to you.

    When Jesus came LOVE became the law, and all of the old laws were pretty much rendered useless (the stuff about burning animals and homosexuals and all of that nonsense) by the Law of Love (forgiveness, charity, faith, peace, etc.)

    All people are sinners. No one is perfect. No person can follow the perfect letter of any law, which is why love and forgiveness are necessary. God is love. Jesus came to bring that message of salvation.

    It's weird because I understood what he was trying to explain to you, but he wasn't capable of doing it. That's why I felt like you were picking on him.

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