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  1. #91
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Why don't you just talk to a more "logical" Christian instead if you're really curious about their beliefs?

    *raises hand*

    I'll volunteer for that job.




    And your friend is an idiot.

  2. #92
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    For the sake of the discussion between the two in the OP post.

    A believer could very well use the arguement that God exposed humans to evil, in order to create a scale of good and evil in which we are to prove ourselves in life. Experiencing both sides of the scale and therefor learning to appreciate good for what it is. As goodness is meaningless when one does not know the concept of evil.

    Just like any discussion about religion. It's pointless though.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #93
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Just like any discussion about religion. It's pointless though.
    Yeah, there's no way to validate anyone's hypotheses.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #94
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    In my opinion, the only problem is people judging other people based on religion and belief systems. As long as people refrain from doing that and just belief in whatever they want to believe in. We'd be close to living in paradise.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  5. #95
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    In my opinion, the only problem is people judging other people based on religion and belief systems. As long as people refrain from doing that and just belief in whatever they want to believe in. We'd be close to living in paradise.
    I disagree in the sense that religious belief impacts social goals, life thrust, and even what people consider "healthy." It affects behavior. It affects interaction on a daily basis. There is no way to create a society where beliefs = moral guidelines and interaction are totally disconnected.

    Thus, people in any society are always going to bring predetermined values into the mix and we have to learn how to deal with that sort of situation. The only way to avoid it is not to have a community.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #96
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    But respecting each others lifestyles would still be possible.

    Belief is an individual's choice. Not a community choice.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  7. #97
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    But respecting each others lifestyles would still be possible.
    Yes, I was referring to your specific wording before.

    Now here's a question: What does it mean to 'respect' someone's "lifestyle"?

    Belief is an individual's choice. Not a community choice.
    I don't think that's what I'm talking about here.

    As soon as you enter a communal setting, you're within a relational web that has to be navigated and an action one place reverberates elsewhere, forcing everyone to deal with it. It's not as easy as saying "you have your beliefs and I have mine," since everyone is now interconnected... just like if a bunch of climbers are roped together and one falls off.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #98
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alwar View Post
    Yeah we need a Jew to explain what's up with Judaism. It does seem more of a cultural practice for the purpose of reinforcing their own identity as a group rather than convert outsiders. Anyone know anything about Buddhism or Hinduism as well? Those are huge too.
    Umm. Probably why Judaism seems more flexible than 'fundamentalist Christianity' or any interpretation of the OT is because, well, I've never met a Fundamentalist Jew, who believed every letter of the Torah literally. That would just be silly.

    Most Jews agree that a lot of things in the Torah are outdated (like, destroy cities that don't follow your religion), and many theorize that a lot of what's written in the Torah is to keep Jews separated from other peoples -- even things like Kosher laws, because it's a lot more difficult to fraternize with other groups if you can't eat the food they eat. Think about it, even back then the Middle East was chaos, everyone merging into other ethnic groups and things like that. If you think of the goal of the Torah as that, at least in part, it's been pretty successful, but also makes a lot of it outdated for modern day.

    Also beside the Tanakh there are a lot of other documents, it's not just Genesis, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Numbers, and Exodus. There's also the Haftarah, Psalms, blah blah blah, and then in addition to that there's the Talmud (oral law, even though it's written) with commentaries of the Torah, then there's Kaballah and so much.

    If you're having a problem, you're supposed to consult the rabbi, but with so many different sources for the 'right' answers in addition to the rabbi's interpretations, if you ask 10 rabbis you're going to get 20 answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwar View Post
    Yes I see your point, my bad. I think it was Dawkins' book "The God Delusion" that mentioned some Christian group in the States that is trying to breed a red cow to bring to Israel or maybe it was in Israel but funded by this group because it justifies some prophecy in the Torah, and Jews find these people suspicious because they act like they really care about them but it's just a means to bring about the end of the world or some crap.
    This is scary as fuck.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #99
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, I was referring to your specific wording before.

    Now here's a question: What does it mean to 'respect' someone's "lifestyle"?
    Respect is indeed subjective, but for me it means live and let live. Even if your neighbour. Heck, even if your roommate, has a different belief. Through respect it should be perfectly fine to live together in harmony. That's respecting someone's faith for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't think that's what I'm talking about here.

    As soon as you enter a communal setting, you're within a relational web that has to be navigated and an action one place reverberates elsewhere, forcing everyone to deal with it. It's not as easy as saying "you have your beliefs and I have mine," since everyone is now interconnected... just like if a bunch of climbers are roped together and one falls off.
    Hmm, I think it is that easy. If a jew and a christian live together, one has a sabbath, the other the sunday. On each day either can fully respect their wishes without consequence. I can't think of any situation where a persons religious lifestyle is cornered when interacting with other people from other faiths. Not to mention that jealousy and envy is frowned upon in just about every religion I am aware off. So people having trouble with other peoples religions are in a sense hipocrits from the get go. And not true to their religion anyhow.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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