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  1. #71
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    When I had a fit, my parents would hold my head under cold water. When I was annoying, they would lock me up in the bathroom. When I was swearing, they'd wash out my mouth with green soap.

    But what's the point in punishment, when the most important thing is.

    When I was behaving, they'd praise me for it.

    I think I'm raised pretty damn well. I definatly wasn't easy. But my parents always had me under control. And were good at teaching right from wrong. And they were always consistent and solid in their arguements, leaving little to no room for guessing on my part. Even though I tried really really hard to undermine them, I was never succesful, and I damn well knew that too. NT child ftw. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  2. #72
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    When I had a fit, my parents would hold my head under cold water. When I was annoying, they would lock me up in the bathroom. When I was swearing, they'd wash out my mouth with green soap.
    once i said "nipple" in a silly way and i got green soap too. lava brand. yuck. i still remember that complete rage and helplessness and shame i felt having my mom do that to me. i went on to cuss anyway. how bout you?
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  3. #73
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    once i said "nipple" in a silly way and i got green soap too. lava brand. yuck. i still remember that complete rage and helplessness and shame i felt having my mom do that to me. i went on to cuss anyway. how bout you?
    I tried continueing misbehaviour to test my parents on occasion, but they weren't very fogiving.

    Eventually, my father started to count to three when we misbehaved on his fingers. And when we were still not behaving when he lifted his third finger, punishment was inevitable. Eventually he just started with two fingers instead of one.

    Me, my brother and sister. Were always perfect little angels the instant my father would hold up two fingers.

    This seemed to amaze other people.

    :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #74
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    When I had a fit, my parents would hold my head under cold water. When I was annoying, they would lock me up in the bathroom. When I was swearing, they'd wash out my mouth with green soap.
    Whoa. Hold your head under the water? Like, submerse your head such that you had to hold your breath? I got locked in my room maybe a handful of times, but I remember what I was thinking when I was in there. It wasn't anything about changing my behavior for the better.

    I think my parents, my caretakers, did the absolute best they knew how with the resources they had a available, in the emotional state that they were in at any given moment. <----I think the same of children too. That being said, none of my punishments made me into a "better" person, and I have no personal appreciation for any of them. The caretakers I had the most respect for, including now(in the long-term) were the ones who took the time to sit and listen to me, to try and understand me as a person, and reach some type of middle group. My understanding is that NF children are much more sensitive to that type of thing, and apparently, that is why NFs often have a difficult time in school. Many times, there is no time for understanding and reason, and the concentration, insofar as discipline goes, is on efficiency and immediate response.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    once i said "nipple" in a silly way and i got green soap too. lava brand. yuck. i still remember that complete rage and helplessness and shame i felt having my mom do that to me. i went on to cuss anyway. how bout you?
    Nipple? Man. I don't even remember the word I used, but I'm sure I say it all the time. I remember how I felt when I was punished as well. It wasn't cute.

  5. #75
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    Whoa. Hold your head under the water? Like, submerse your head such that you had to hold your breath? I got locked in my room maybe a handful of times, but I remember what I was thinking when I was in there. It wasn't anything about changing my behavior for the better.

    I think my parents, my caretakers, did the absolute best they knew how with the resources they had a available, in the emotional state that they were in at any given moment. <----I think the same of children too. That being said, none of my punishments made me into a "better" person, and I have no personal appreciation for any of them. The caretakers I had the most respect for, including now(in the long-term) were the ones who took the time to sit and listen to me, to try and understand me as a person, and reach some type of middle group. My understanding is that NF children are much more sensitive to that type of thing, and apparently, that is why NFs often have a difficult time in school. Many times, there is no time for understanding and reason, and the concentration, insofar as discipline goes, is on efficiency and immediate response.
    Under a cold stream of water in the sink, not submerge. :P

    Locking up in your respective room punishment doesn't work. Locking up in a stale boring environment like for example bathroom or staircase does however. xD
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  6. #76
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Under a cold stream of water in the sink, not submerge. :P

    Locking up in your respective room punishment doesn't work. Locking up in a stale boring environment like for example bathroom or staircase does however. xD

    OMG! Whew!!

    Well, I would get locked in my room and everything cool would get taken out before hand, so I'd just sit in the room screaming and thinking about ways to erase myself. I was about 4 or 5, but I remember wanting to disappear and float away to another world. I felt extremely misunderstood, and usually when I was punished, I would try to help my parents understand my position and it was as if they either didn't get it or me, or didn't care. I was pretty sure that if they had understood me, that they wouldn't have reacted as they did. I'm not so sure about that anymore, but I'm wondering if idealism is some sort of defense mechanism.

  7. #77
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    As spanking and punishment are generally used, the intention is to cause the child pain or discomfort in an effort to get them to modify their behavior. The intentions of doing the above are actually quite the opposite. That is, we asking our children to eat the proper foods, or sleep enough hours in an effort to help them to avoid pain or discomfort.
    Getting children to eat foods they don't like and go to sleep or wake up when they don't want to IS causing children (short-term and transitory) pain or discomfort in order to modify their behavior, so that (long-term and enduring) pain and discomfort are avoided later in life. Spanking is no different in this respect.

    As for the rest:
    1.) The instinctual attachment of an infant to its mother has zero application to the child's overall cooperative tendencies, for two reasons: the rest of the world does not consist of the child's mother, and a child does not stay an infant (with an extremely undeveloped brain and instinctual existence) forever.

    2.) On the matter of intellectual development (I really can't believe you think pre-pubescent children have the same cognitive capabilities as adults), this site seems to be a good starting point;

    Stages of Intellectual Development In Children and Teenagers

  8. #78
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Getting children to eat foods they don't like and go to sleep or wake up when they don't want to IS causing children (short-term and transitory) pain or discomfort in order to modify their behavior, so that (long-term and enduring) pain and discomfort are avoided later in life. Spanking is no different in this respect.
    That depends on how the above actually takes place. We did "cue" or demand feeding, and have never scheduled eating or sleeping. Both the scheduling of sleep, and force feeding have been questioned in adult obesity, and sleep disorders. The idea is that a young child needs to be able to listen to his body's natural cues in order to regulate them properly. When a child is put on another person's schedule, he learns to not listen to his own cues, but follow the cues of others. As an adult, he doesn't know when to stop eating, or even "how" to go to sleep.

    Just as spanking doesn't create a happy, emotionally healthy, "good" human(again, see U.S. crime rates, suicide rates,etc..); neither does schedule feeding and parental sleep regulation in childhood create healthy eaters and sleepers. Of course, I am speaking on a macroscopic level, and there are people who were schedule fed and schedule slept, and spanked, who turned out "just fine". Nonetheless, we cannot attribute their being "just fine" to either common practice imo. Adult Overweight/Obesity Rate - Kaiser State Health Facts

    Sleep Disorders

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    As for the rest:
    1.) The instinctual attachment of an infant to its mother has zero application to the child's overall cooperative tendencies, for two reasons: the rest of the world does not consist of the child's mother, and a child does not stay an infant (with an extremely undeveloped brain and instinctual existence) forever.

    2.) On the matter of intellectual development (I really can't believe you think pre-pubescent children have the same cognitive capabilities as adults), this site seems to be a good starting point;

    Stages of Intellectual Development In Children and Teenagers
    1. According to attachment psychologist, the world as the child sees it, does consist of his mother, or the "mother"/primary attachment figure. The greater world out there is irrelevant to the infant or even the young child, as he looks to the mother(and not society at large) as the secure base. Rather or not the world is dangerous or safe, friendly or scary, in large part depends on the child's level of secure or insecure attachment to the primary. An adult's degree of secure or insecure attachment is typically mirrored by the measure of his security or insecurity(in attachment) as a child in infancy and beyond. Children, infants, and adults with secure levels of attachment tend display more pro-social behavior than children, infants, and adults who are ambivalent, or insecure(as far as attachment goes). http://www.psychology.sunysb.edu/att...line/karen.pdf

    2. But of course, Piaget was only offering up a theory. His theory cannot explain the Flynn Effect, for example. Or how a young pre-teen can ace courses in logistics, or graduate at the head of a college class of adults. I tend to side with Vygotsky, rather than Piaget, when it comes to the development of a child's cognitive abilities. If we expect that children "can't", then we will never offer up opportunities, or the level of trust, that prove otherwise.The Educational Theory of Lev Semenovich Vygotsky: an analysis

  9. #79
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I agree with your #1 there, but there are plenty of firmly attached infants and children with authoritative parents. (I am making a distinction between authoritative and authoritarian, like what'shername did in Kids Are Worth It, with the "jellyfish" and "brickwall" thing.)
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
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  10. #80
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    XD

    I just was going thorugh the back room and stumbled across a book I'd taken with me when I moved a few years ago...

    It was a child psychology book... now that I've seen it again, I distinctly remember reading it when I was young (like 8 or something) and trying to actively use it against my parents just so that they couldn't control my mind >.>;;

    If yeu get an NT kid, and don't want to spank them or anything, make sure they don't get ahold of yeur referance material XD

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