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  1. #1
    Senior Member therationaledge's Avatar
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    Default Everything Is Science

    What I mean by Science is the truth. I know there is science that is theoretical and they cannot prove, thats not what I mean.

    Maybe someone can think of a better word? Anyway.

    EVERYTHING is science.

    Ever think that the reason that miracles have declined are because people are using science to figure them out? That maybe they WERENT miracles, in the supernatural sense.

    This is why I'm a diest/agnostic. I believe that if there is some super-powerful being that they would not need to deviate from natural law to do things.

    Think of a super complex clockmaker.

    But pretty much, if they find proof of the "supernatural" which i Don't believe they will, it will be science.

    People often say that I am "closed" minded, but the fact is I am not, I want to believe in a happy super candy land in the sky after death, I want to believe in a father figure that loves me no matter what, and in magic.
    But i can't, because I have not had on experience in my life that says I should.

    Everything is science
    "You would lose your money," Sherlock Holmes remarked calmly. "As for the article I wrote it myself."

    "You!"

    "Yes, I have a turn both for observation and for deduction. The theories which I have expressed there, and which appear to you to be so chimerical are really extremely practical -- so practical that I depend upon them for my bread and cheese."

  2. #2
    Junior Member locus8's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say everything is science. I'd like to say that everything is either philosophy, or it is science. Actually, I would be inclined to think that everything is philosophy, considering the fact that science relies on paradigms which are for the most part philosophical in nature. But that's disgressing. Let's say that everything is worthy of scientific investigation, although not everything can be.

  3. #3
    Senior Member therationaledge's Avatar
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    Mhm, I use the word science loosly. I just don't have a better word lol.
    "You would lose your money," Sherlock Holmes remarked calmly. "As for the article I wrote it myself."

    "You!"

    "Yes, I have a turn both for observation and for deduction. The theories which I have expressed there, and which appear to you to be so chimerical are really extremely practical -- so practical that I depend upon them for my bread and cheese."

  4. #4
    Senior Member Just another ISTJ's Avatar
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    I take it you're claiming that everything can be rationally explained.

    I agree with you to an extent, but everyone's reality is subjective. So when someone is having a near death experience featuring visions of God, the afterlife, and so forth, one could explain that said visions were due to a series of chemical reactions, which triggered some area of one's brain. To the person who had the experience however, there could be much more meaning attached to it. Whether it was what could be deemed as a truly spiritual moment is unknown to all of us as observers.

    In short, while there appears to be definite rules in this universe, I'm not so certain that everything can be rationally explained.

  5. #5
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    Rethink your definition of science. Engineers and scientists are painfully aware of the fact that just about all of science is just theory. It is the best estimation we can create to model the natural world we live in.

    Lets take for example, Newton and the laws he derived. Newtons second law states that the force applied to a body within an inertial reference frame is equal to the mass of the object times the acceleration. This is taken to be absolutely true by many people but is in fact only an estimation that becomes more and more inaccurate as the speed of the object approaches a significant fraction of the speed of light.

    Netwon was a genius and has become a pillar of science and yet was a very religious man. He understood that developing a flawed understand of the natural world can only provide incomplete answers as to how things happen. I see no inherent conflict with the idea of a God as a creator and science and rational thought. Quite a few other giants don't either. I've been meaning to get my hands on a few writings such as Pascals Wager to expand my ideas on the topic.

    I feel as if you may be missing the point of faith in a god. The whole point is to develop an irrational faith not based on empirical evidence or reasoning. I really see no conflict here, even for a rational person like an INTP.

  6. #6
    Senior Member therationaledge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonJT View Post
    Rethink your definition of science. Engineers and scientists are painfully aware of the fact that just about all of science is just theory. It is the best estimation we can create to model the natural world we live in.

    Lets take for example, Newton and the laws he derived. Newtons second law states that the force applied to a body within an inertial reference frame is equal to the mass of the object times the acceleration. This is taken to be absolutely true but is in fact only an estimation that becomes more and more inaccurate as the speed of the object approaches a significant fraction of the speed of light.

    Netwon was a genius and has become a pillar of science and yet was a very religious man. He understood that developing a flawed understand of the natural world can only provide incomplete answers as to how things happen. I see no inherent conflict with the idea of a God as a creator and science and rational thought.

    I feel as if you may be missing the point of faith in a god. The whole point is to develop an irrational faith not based on empirical evidence or reasoning. I really see no conflict here, even for a rational person like an INTP.
    Like I said a bunch of times, science is my word for truth, or something like that. Not science as defined officially.

    Like I also said, if someone can think of a better word, I might adopt it.

    Basically what I mean is, I think of science as the truth, my definition of science is basically, non-supernatural truths. I haven't vocalized it before, so its hard to explain.
    I think that miracles/supernatural things are basically thigns we just dont understand yet. Not outside of natural law.
    "You would lose your money," Sherlock Holmes remarked calmly. "As for the article I wrote it myself."

    "You!"

    "Yes, I have a turn both for observation and for deduction. The theories which I have expressed there, and which appear to you to be so chimerical are really extremely practical -- so practical that I depend upon them for my bread and cheese."

  7. #7
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Moved to Philosophy and Spirituality. Not that I think this thread merits either title.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  8. #8
    Junior Member locus8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonJT View Post
    I feel as if you may be missing the point of faith in a god. The whole point is to develop an irrational faith not based on empirical evidence or reasoning. I really see no conflict here, even for a rational person like an INTP.
    Indeed. Although I do not myself believe in a god, and am agnostic, I do not see any conflict between being a scientist and believing in god. Scientists already need to believe in certain things to engage in scientific activity. If scientists were to restrict themselves from having any kind of belief, and choose an agnostic stance by default for anything they could not demonstrate, then they would not be able to pursue scientific activity. The paradigms that they use are based on assumptions and require some degree of faith.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by therationaledge View Post
    Like I said a bunch of times, science is my word for truth, or something like that. Not science as defined officially.

    Like I also said, if someone can think of a better word, I might adopt it.

    Basically what I mean is, I think of science as the truth, my definition of science is basically, non-supernatural truths. I haven't vocalized it before, so its hard to explain.
    I think that miracles/supernatural things are basically thigns we just dont understand yet. Not outside of natural law.
    Ok so the label is just semantics. That's fine.

    If you are using science to address physical truths, how can you expect it to address the metaphysical?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    I suppose one could put this forward as "Science is belief in understanding".

    It does not need to conflict with spiritual values... though it will conflict if those spiritual values are not open to change. This is the common point of contention, as it is commonly perceived that to adjust ones values is to admit to being wrong. Or perhaps to question one's values might be seen as a lack of dedication. I find this a curious stance as opposed to one where one seeks to continually improve oneself. A keystone of Science is the ability to doubt, question, revisit old theories, examine new evidence. It invites a humble aspect.

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