User Tag List

Results 1 to 9 of 9

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    336

    Default Why are some things ugly and others beautiful?

    Why are some things ugly and others beautiful?

    The distinguishing characteristic between organic and inorganic motif is movement. Movement can manifest itself simply through growth or volitional locomotion. The basic characteristic of inorganic crystallinity is not, however, entirely missing in organic bodies. Trees have their annual rings, leaves display systematic structure, these characteristics are however often veiled and hidden from the observers eye or partially obscured by principles such as the law of motion.

    The basic characteristics of inorganic crystallinity are “(a) delimitation by regular surfaces conjoined at angles and (b) absolute stereometric and planimetric symmetry.” Art deals with inorganic substances; primitive wo/man unavoidably, and most likely unconsciously, asked the question how would nature do it?

    What prevents the formal law of inorganic things, i.e. crystallization, from dominating all attempts to depict organic things? The laws of motion characteristic of inorganic things “compel the continuous rearrangement of molecules, which permits them to coalesce into a symmetrical structure only during pauses in the process of motion”.

    In addition to motion a second characteristic of organic matter is curvature. Inorganic matter often appears in a shapeless state while organic matter generally appears in a state of curvature.

    “Thus man found himself faced with the task of reproducing an organic natural being in dead matter. We must keep firmly in mind that this called not for imitation or lateral portrayal but for competition. If conceptual requirements demanded a depiction of a four-legged creature, the primitive artist was not compelled to portray a specific individual or, even less, an accidental attitude of that individual. He needed instead to depict a representative of the given species with no intent to individualize.”

    In the attempt to adopt the principles of inorganic matter while simultaneously attempting to place the human species as being above that of nature required that the artist “depict a representative of a given species with no intent to individualize.” When portraying organic matter the artist must record it paused in mid motion.

    Once it was deemed acceptable to depict organic matter in motion, stopped motion but nevertheless motion, “transitory and accidental qualities entered art”. This was a moment of great consequence for art; perhaps even more important than was the introduction of organic motifs.

    An object in motion is an object that tends to lose its symmetry and proportionality, vital characteristics of crystalline structure. “Even this limited movement meant the loss of absolute symmetry; thus asymmetry came to accompany curvature.”

    The artist must attempt to make this absence of absolute symmetry minimally apparent. Symmetry determines the relationship between the left and right sides of a figure. Proportion determines the relationship between the upper and lower parts of the figure.

    When a thing of nature fails to conform to instinctive views of minimal acceptability of symmetry and/or proportionality “we describe it as ugly. A person’s face might exhibit the most punctilious symmetry, but if the forehead is too low, the cheeks too broad, or the nose too long, we call the whole thing unattractive without there being the slightest possibility of disagreement.”

    Quotes from Historical Grammar of the Visual Arts by Alois Riegl

  2. #2
    See Right Through Me Bubbles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w3
    Socionics
    IEI
    Posts
    1,037

    Default

    Beauty is something of universal appreciation. Ugliness is something we try to avoid with all our hearts. I think beauty is best used for things that aren't up for debate, like the love of a mother of a child at its birth, that's beautiful. In the same way, war is ugly.

    I think I mean to say, if it's subjective, it's not a perfect embodiment of either.
    4w3, IEI, so/sx/sp, female, and Cancer sign.

    My thoughts on...
    Enneagram:
    Socionics:
    MBTI:

    DISCLAIMER: If I offend you, I'm 99.9% sure it's unintentional. So be sure to let me know, m'kay? (And yes, an INFP would stick this in their signature, lol.)

  3. #3
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,859

    Default

    Hormones.

  4. #4
    nevermore lane777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    635

    Default

    Look into Phi 1.618 a.k.a. The Golden Number.

    It doesn't really answer your question, but it may be of interest.
    To die would be an awfully big adventure - Peter Pan

    INFJ ~ 4w5 sp/sx ~ RLOAI ~ Inclusion e/w=1/0 (Melancholy Compulsive) Control: e/w=0/6 (Supine) Affection: e/w=4/0 (Phlegmatic Melancholy)

  5. #5
    Member shimsham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    infj
    Posts
    94

    Default

    I think that people generally find simplicity, order, symmetry, and pattern to be beautiful more easily than they find disorder, complexity, and stochasticity to be. Thus, asymmetry and disorder may be thought of as "components" of ugliness.

    But, that doesn't mean that something that originally strikes a person as unpleasant can't eventually become beautiful to them through familiarity. I think dissonance in music is a really good example of this (Consonance and dissonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). The more you listen to music that integrates dissonant sounds into it, the more you grow to love it, and the more beautiful it seems. In fact, it's often the music that challenges me in this way that I grow to love and find beautiful beyond the music that I like from the get-go.

    I think the same phenomenon can apply to visual perceptions of beauty and ugliness, but perhaps not as readily (abstract expressionist works might be a good example).

  6. #6
    Member Taizic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    EII
    Posts
    42

    Default

    I suppose it's the fact of balance. Without one, where is the other, and etc. How would we know what's beautiful if we didn't know what is (so to say) ugly. Of course some find ugly things to be beautiful, and some find beautiful things to be not as artistic or original.

    I suppose it's something like that ^_^
    So he said to me "I love you, just not the way you want me to." I hit him, because he lied to me.

  7. #7
    Senior Member wank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    free
    Enneagram
    nope
    Posts
    131

    Default

    I pose that there is neither and it becomes a matter of that which conforms to our ego's repetition and perspective one way or another. They are equally subjective words that needn't necessarily pose polarities but singular instances unto themselves. Parts of a greater whole(not itself outside the bounds of such words[although along this line the division in those words becomes verbose]).

    Also,...
    ...an object in motion...
    I come to wonder if that there would be an object without motion. lol,... in context a matter of entropy.
    Everyone is a case study.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    Will
    Posts
    5,927

    Default

    Beauty is a level of perfection and vice versa for ugly.

  9. #9
    WALMART
    Guest

    Default

    Because without objective standings the world would cease to exist.

Similar Threads

  1. Why are there fewer ENTJs and ENFJs on MBTI forums compared to the other N types?
    By Such Irony in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: 03-20-2015, 11:53 AM
  2. why is this forum good and other sites full of trolls?
    By Asterion in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 08-20-2010, 01:10 PM
  3. Why are there no ExxJ and ISJ entertainers or artists?
    By proteanmix in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 01-24-2010, 10:21 AM
  4. Why are DRAGONS so RACIST? And can they be REFORMED?
    By Wonkavision in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-08-2009, 03:05 PM
  5. What's are some things....
    By Littlelostnf in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-25-2007, 12:54 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO