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View Poll Results: Do you believe in a personal God?

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Thread: What is God?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LIND View Post
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    Eileen- How can you give your heart to a false claim? Since you don't agree with it intelectually , you don't validate it, so then why do you buy into little lies? Have you been like this in past relationships too, where "the other" said to you "I love you" yet even though you knew that he didn't, you were in love with the idea of him loving you? When one can't synthesize what's in one's head and what lies in the heart, well then my friend there's a dissociation problem that we're dealing with. Are you OK with the disorder among your organs? Nothing seems to be unified inside of you but instead each organ does what it likes, and you lie there helpless giving us an account about what your heart believes, what your hand does, what your mind ate...etc.
    Suggestion: Pull yourself together!
    Hey now! I'm as "together" as anybody can be "together." You don't know me or anything about me aside from what I've posted here, which is not very much. So you can take your speculations about my relationships and, well, shove 'em. I have harmonized my heart and mind quite well--you just don't understand how. I haven't mastered it, but I have been working for many years on learning to hold up contradictory ideas beside one another and regard them each as possible or true. I will try to explain, though I lack confidence that you will get it.

    I have doubts in a literal, supernatural God, but I do not believe that truth merely lies in the literal. Humans narrate--it's one of the remarkable and beautiful things about us. The stories that we tell are not factual, but they contain truths in the forms of themes, motifs, figures, archetypes, and other marvelous literary devices that I have the great pleasure to ponder regularly in my line of work. We have narrated into a sort of existence the idea of a loving God, an embracing being that creates and relates. While I doubt that there is anything that could ever be called "God matter," I fully appreciate the metaphor of God and the positive possibility that exists in it. The truth of God is not material, not concrete, not literal--if we try to make it so, try to force it to be, we will probably be disappointed. If we accept that the truth of God exists in some other way--intangible, abstract, metaphorical--then I think we've got a shot at optimizing meaningfulness in spiritual/religious experience. I like the idea of reading the world--and I have enough religious impulse in me to regard this as a holy task (I recognize that I bring that meaning to the table, and I like that I do). As I read the world, I can do so by what an early New Testament scholar called "the flesh"--I can even be amazed by the literal! But I will not stop there--I will read the world by the soul and spirit, too--for moral truths and abstract, spiritual, mystical truths. It is work--sometimes it's a difficult struggle, but it's the way that I feel that I can be in the world in a really full way.

    So -- in response to your question about how I can give my heart over to a "false claim," the answer is this: While I doubt seriously that there is a literal God (whatever that could mean), I do not believe for a moment that the claim of God is false.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  2. #32
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    Originally posted by Bluewing:
    So, whatever is real must have concrete-empirical evidence? How about 2 plus 2 is 4? No concrete evidence, therefore it must have no meaning to you? Not even radical empiricists like Hume and Locke would argue this point, even they believed that there was human nature for which there is no empirical evidence. Archetype is within the province of human nature, not the external, physical nature.


    Dishonesty on your part-you know very well that you've distorted my statement; pay more attention and don't make me act like a parrott. I stated "since you only...".

    Far from saying that God must be reduced to something material, I am saying that God is all
    Pantheist...? DO you believe that God resides in WEst Nile Encephalities , the mosquito whose sting causes paralysis, coma, disorientation?
    [

  3. #33
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LIND View Post

    Dishonesty on your part-you know very well that you've distorted my statement; pay more attention and don't make me act like a parrott. I stated "since you only...".?
    What statement could that have been?


    Quote Originally Posted by LIND View Post
    [Pantheist...? DO you believe that God resides in WEst Nile Encephalities , the mosquito whose sting causes paralysis, coma, disorientation?
    I dont see a problem with this. God has nothing to do with your tastes and prejudices. Just because you dont like mosquitoes it doesnt make god any more or less good or evil because he inheres within them. By these merits we have overcome the problem of anthropomorphism.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #34
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    Originally posted by EILEEN:
    I have doubts in a literal, supernatural God, but I do not believe that truth merely lies in the literal. Humans narrate--it's one of the remarkable and beautiful things about us. The stories that we tell are not factual, but they contain truths in the forms of themes, motifs, figures, archetypes, and other marvelous literary devices that I have the great pleasure to ponder regularly in my line of work. We have narrated into a sort of existence the idea of a loving God, an embracing being that creates and relates. While I doubt that there is anything that could ever be called "God matter," I fully appreciate the metaphor of God and the positive possibility that exists in it. The truth of God is not material, not concrete, not literal--if we try to make it so, try to force it to be, we will probably be disappointed. If we accept that the truth of God exists in some other way--intangible, abstract, metaphorical--then I think we've got a shot at optimizing meaningfulness in spiritual/religious experience. I like the idea of reading the world--and I have enough religious impulse in me to regard this as a holy task (I recognize that I bring that meaning to the table, and I like that I do). As I read the world, I can do so by what an early New Testament scholar called "the flesh"--I can even be amazed by the literal! But I will not stop there--I will read the world by the soul and spirit, too--for moral truths and abstract, spiritual, mystical truths. It is work--sometimes it's a difficult struggle, but it's the way that I feel that I can be in the world in a really full way.

    So -- in response to your question about how I can give my heart over to a "false claim," the answer is this: While I doubt seriously that there is a literal God (whatever that could mean), I do not believe for a moment that the claim of God is false.
    __________________


    Your essay is quite nice...soothing to the heart...easy on the mind.....dreamy....but unstable and full of contradictions! You enjoy stories and you are a story teller!
    You assert: "truth does not lie in the literal", yet you follow up with "God is metaphorical"; in other words not "unimaginative" but "imaginative" and you conclude by stating "God is not false". Since you enjoy fairytales and you believe in them, I can see why you would believe in a Peter Pan like God.
    [

  5. #35
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LIND View Post

    Your essay is quite nice...soothing to the heart...easy on the mind.....dreamy....but unstable and full of contradictions! You enjoy stories and you are a story teller!
    You assert: "truth does not lie in the literal", yet you follow up with "God is metaphorical"; in other words not "unimaginative" but "imaginative" and you conclude by stating "God is not false". Since you enjoy fairytales and you believe in them, I can see why you would believe in a Peter Pan like God.

    There's a whole thread on my agnostic devotion which includes my thoughts on stories (and how stories, while works of the imagination, are not FALSE). While I welcome challenging questions, you seem to be mainly interested in insulting me, so I will not be entertaining you any longer.

    Edit: But I will clarify this much. There is no contradiction whatsoever in these statements:

    Truth does not lie merely in the literal.
    The truth of God is metaphorical.

    Those do not contradict, as the antonym of LITERAL is FIGURATIVE. Metaphors are figurative statements. There is truth to be found in metaphor--in the imaginative. I'd ask you where you see a contradiction in my actual statements, but I don't really want to have a conversation with you, as you're antagonistic and obnoxious.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  6. #36
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    Originally posted by Eileen:
    a conversation with you, as you're antagonistic and obnoxious......
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    You label me "antagonistic & obnoxious" after you've directly insulted me by saying "that I doubt you'll understand"? This only serves to let the readers know how differently you look under your cloak of "dreamy comments-innocence"!
    Yes I've read your thread, and unfortunately for you even though you might think that you possess a great depth to the way you view things, unfortunately you rather have a view diminshed by your illusions! You've told me to read it, and yet I haven't found anything more then what I've already found on this thread; what have I found, you say? Response: a myth lover, who believes that myths can offer truths, but when you assert that you've said much more than that, well that makes me wonder what....?
    The pernicious, disturbing affirmation that I did find as being something more than you've said here, is that you're thinking about becoming a priest! Good Lord! The church doesn't need anything more but a priest who is confused; fueled by the "myths" from the Bible, this priest is ready to release the idea of myth into the audience! Imagine what you would do to the foundation laid by Christ-..Anti.
    Last edited by LIND; 10-06-2007 at 01:28 AM.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    RaptorWizard's responce to SolitaryWalker's What is God? thread:

    God is the greatest possible good. Such a concept is beyond the anthropomorphized image of God most people of primitive times always tried to project upon the divine. SolitaryWalker thinks however that this renders revelation impossible, which assumes God cannot talk to people, but at least SolitaryWalker says perhaps prophets could translate their connection with the infinite realm. Revelation I believe could come from a non-anthropomorphized source, which could perhaps transform the unconscious mind from within. Such an example may be an all omnipresent living mind which sees everything and from which all things spring into being. Should this belief hold any realistic quality to it that exists in the world, it would imply a deep connection shared amongst every mind in the universe, and our universe with whatever other worlds may be. We could all be unified with the divine as agents of co-creation. Revelation could come from any mind in existence, should we tap into this inscrutable source and the power it may give to those who seek it on their journeys, as they strive to live with purpose. This source is not necessarily God, since not all of creation is good enough.

  8. #38
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    Baby don't hurt me.


    That LIND guy looks so suave.

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