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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    It's still implied. It's really hard to argue for "equality" under Christian precepts without reference to this - directly or indirectly.
    Okay. Well, kind of hard to avoid having it dragged in, though, if the guy doesn't mention it and YOU insist it becomes part of the dialog anyway... (I mean, you're arguing with a point you're assuming he is making and saying it undermines his case because he didn't understand the verse properly.... Who can debate with you over something that isn't there?)

    But objection noted.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Who can debate with you over something that isn't there?
    His whole argument is operating under that premise.

  3. #13
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Let me guess, he resorts to citing "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28)

    Which requires a gross misinterpretation of Scriptures, not to mention lack of understanding of the historical context in which those words were given.
    Scriptures are a gross misinterpretation of reality IMO.

  4. #14
    Sniffles
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    Well you're entitled to your opinion.

  5. #15
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    His whole argument is operating under that premise.
    Sigh.

    Maybe it isn't?

    Maybe he wasn't thinking the scripture at all?
    So he reached that idea independently?

    People can make cases for equality just via life experience, and he's certainly been dealing with people all over the world for years and years, in politics AND in his Habitat for Humanity work?

    And if he did, then you have to attack the reasoning he used to reach it, rather than just saying, "He didn't translate the Bible verse the way I think it should be?" That seems pretty sloppy to me, rationally-speaking.

    This conversation has ceased to be interesting or fun or instructive.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #16
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Evidently his ethics are not derived from Christianity, but something else. Perhaps it is a form of evolution.

    Peguy for the rebuttal....

  7. #17
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Thoughts? Feelings? Reflections? Problems/Holes?
    I think it shows he has the ability to separate principle from a contextualized application of a principle unlike the majority of people.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  8. #18
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I think it shows he has the ability to separate principle from a contextualized application of a principle unlike the majority of people.

    Excellent post.

  9. #19
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Sigh.

    Maybe it isn't?

    Maybe he wasn't thinking the scripture at all?
    So he reached that idea independently?

    People can make cases for equality just via life experience, and he's certainly been dealing with people all over the world for years and years, in politics AND in his Habitat for Humanity work?
    Carter here is expressing his reasoning for leaving the SBC over their views on particular issues, which he clearly states in his view violates "not just of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights but also the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, Moses and the prophets, Muhammad, and founders of other great religions - all of whom have called for proper and equitable treatment of all the children of God."

    And I give reference here to the verse(s) of St. Paul that one would most directly refer in making such an argument, and you seem to have a problem with this - namely because Carter does not literally refer to the verse in question. He's still making a reference to it, whether he literally states it or not.

    And if he did, then you have to attack the reasoning he used to reach it, rather than just saying, "He didn't translate the Bible verse the way I think it should be?" That seems pretty sloppy to me, rationally-speaking.
    I find it sloppy to automatically assume that this whole discussion is merely about personal interpretation. That certainly is consistent with the Protestant perspective; but Catholics and Orthodox operate on a completely framework here.

  10. #20
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Yes I'm Catholic.


    Long story short: Men and women are of two different -abeit complementary- natures, and gender relations should be based upon mutual respect. Nevertheless, it's important for women to submit to the authority of men.
    Can you explain this position or link to someone who can?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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