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  1. #11
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    What if he thinks your soul is okay and doesn't need any special saving?
    We're talking about Christian preachers, here. If you're not a Christian (which Into It isn't), they're going to think you're deluded and need help badly. Ironically, we think the same thing about them.

  2. #12
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    We're talking about Christian preachers, here. If you're not a Christian (which Into It isn't), they're going to think you're deluded and need help badly. Ironically, we think the same thing about them.
    I know several who don't think that.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  3. #13
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I know several who don't think that.
    You do? I kind of thought you were required to think non-Christians were wrong (and possibly insane) in order to be a Christian... especially the major Christian, the preaching kind. They're the BIG, strongly convicted Christians, not just your everyday Christians. I always figured preachers were more extreme in their faith than the others, because they were the leaders and propagators of the religion. They're not?

    EDIT: Come to think of it, I might be confusing them with Missionaries.

  4. #14
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    You do? I kind of thought you were required to think non-Christians were wrong in order to be a Christian... especially the major Christian, the preaching kind. They're the BIG, strongly convicted Christians, not just your everyday Christians. I always figured preachers were more extreme than the others, because they were the leaders and propagators of the religion. They're not?
    No, not all of them. Although they're not the majority, many Christians are also universalists. Most of the Quakers I've met are Christian universalists. Many of the Episcopalians I know, including the vicar of our church, are also universalists. She is a strongly convicted Christian who firmly believes that everyone is a child of God.

    The same is true of missionaries by the way. It depends in part on the denomination. Some of the more fundamentalist denominations are more into evangelism, and that is reflected in the preaching style and the behavior of missionaries. Other denominations consider the work of missionaries to be basically like community service. Building homes for the poor, donating food, working in homeless shelters, etc.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  5. #15
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    No, not all of them. Although they're not the majority, many Christians are also universalists. Most of the Quakers I've met are Christian universalists. Many of the Episcopalians I know, including the vicar of our church, are also universalists. She is a strongly convicted Christian who firmly believes that everyone is a child of God.
    If you don't mind my asking, what's a universalist?

    The main issue I have with most religions is their insistence that their perspective is the only correct one, despite their similarity. It isn't so much that I don't believe there's a God, so much as I don't believe that any single depiction of God is more perfect than any other (because those who created/recorded/translated/copied the depictions were themselves imperfect). So essentially, what I claim is ignorance of the details of God's nature/will that most major religions claim to know, aside from the major principles they all seem to share, like the idea of murder/theft being wrong, or that compassion and mercy are virtues, etc.

    The comparison, I suppose, is that if you have different artists try to draw the same scene, the pictures will all look very different yet similar in many ways. That's the scenario I see with most major religions.

    That would make me agnostic, I think.

  6. #16
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    If you don't mind my asking, what's a universalist?

    The main issue I have with most religions is their insistence that their perspective is the only correct one, despite their similarity. It isn't so much that I don't believe there's a God, so much as I don't believe that any single depiction of God is more perfect than any other. So essentially, what I claim is ignorance of the details of God's nature that most major religions claim to know, aside from the major principles they all seem to share, like the idea of murder/theft being wrong, or that compassion and mercy are virtues, etc.
    A universalist believes that whatever benefits their idea of God offers are available to everyone, not just the members of their religion. Some of them don't have a specific idea in mind when they think of God. In fact, what you describe is very much like the Unitarian Universalist perspective. My husband grew up in the UU church, and says that Sunday school was basically Religion 101. They learned about all religions, and weren't told that any of them were more valid than any others. The major precept of the UU church is "the inherent worth and dignity of every human being."

    Even Christians who aren't universalists don't necessarily believe that non-Christians are wrong and/or insane or "deluded and need help badly". There's just an awful lot of diversity among Christian beliefs.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  7. #17
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    We're talking about Christian preachers, here. If you're not a Christian (which Into It isn't), they're going to think you're deluded and need help badly. Ironically, we think the same thing about them.
    Well, I grant you, Sir Into It has often announced that his soul is in disrepair and he doesn't require help with it, so how about laying this trap for the Preach:

    "You only believe in God because of your Meyer Briggs Type."

    Cruel, and unusual.

  8. #18
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    what? that wouldn't work they'd look at you like you were nuts? and it makes no sense. Because, your type doesn't determine whether or not you believe in god, it might influence it in someway. so even if he knows MBTI he could easily dismiss that argument.

    wait are you joking? please tell me you are I can sleep better if you are.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  9. #19
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    What kind of preacher is he? And why do you care so much?

  10. #20
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into It View Post
    He's staying here this week. I'm going to piece together a very solid argument for my stances. I'm sure he will want to speak with me about it because he probably wants to save my soul. He won't.

    So I want to ask you, what questions would you ask a preacher at your disposal? I will ask him. And I invite you to post brief arguments or to point out contradictions that I should bring up, so that he may explain them away.
    Hospitality is about the guest.
    It is not about the host.

    To win is not to understand.
    Winning precludes understanding.

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