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Animal Spirit Guides

Scott N Denver

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So far it sounds like Amargith and myself, and maybe Kingfisher, are the only ones to give "yes" answers as such to this post. I'll bet there are more who haven't seen this post yet or are just keeping it to themselves. Given the topic that's not surprising. Hee hee, maybe I should go to me engineering job on Monday and tell people that "animal spirits 'talk' to me", between technically-minded folks, naturally suspicious of everything people, conservative people, and traditionally-religiously-minded people, I bet that would go over REAL well. NOT! Anyways,...

Amargith, I liked your talking about the differences between animal spirit guides, power animals, and totems. I've never really understood the difference there. Did you get that from somewhere, or alternatively is there someplace I could go look to read more of a discussion about those differences?

Fwiw, I like Native American shamanism and can relate a little bit to its symbology,. but don't feel "connected" to it as a whole, sorts like looking at a different culture that's kinda-similar to yours but not your culture. On the other hand, I strongly identify with the "feel" and "experience" of celtic shamanism but feel little or no connection to its deities and mythology per se. I tend to like Carl Jungs ideas [collective unconscious, archetypes, symbolical interpretation of images, etc].

Amargith, maybe you've mentioned this before so I apologize if I'm repeating covered ground. Is there a particular religious style(s) or culture that you come from or identify with? I think you mentioned Norse [asatru?] earlier in this thread. Is there a particular deity set that you identify with?
 

Scott N Denver

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Amargith, or Kingfisher, this may be expanding beyond the point of this thread but perhaps you could talk a little bit about other types of spirits/guides as well?

I've had friends who were more into this and told me more about it, but this whole topic area is not, ummm, something that I place direct emphasis on. I remember things like healing guide, joy guide, science/medicine guide or something?, I'm sure the list can get very long.
 

Kingfisher

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by the way, i am talking about spirit and animal guides in a native american context, becaue that is what i am familiar with, but animal guides are really a cross cultural thing. i mean, everybody responds in some way to animals. spirit and animal guides are just a way of understanding our self and our world by being connected to animals. by learning from animals' wisdom, rather than thinking the answers to everything are entirely human.

Fair enough!

So really it's not about spirits or anything of that sort, but purely about inspiration and how we tap in to that source of inspiration.

By the way, I'm sure you believe otherwise, I'm just forming an opinion myself. It doesn't strike me as supernatural. :)

that's a good way to look at it. i don't think the idea of a literal "spirit" guide is going to work or appeal to everybody. but you can still take inspiration and lessons from animals without it being supernatural or especially spiritual.


if you don't feel especially connected to any animals that doesn't mean you don't/can't have a spirit guide. spirit guides are not something that everyone gets at a young age, or finds naturally or easily. it sometimes take a long time for a spirit guide to reveal itself.

the classic way of finding a spirit guide is a vision quest. the basic idea of a vision quest is to go into the wilderness and meditate, to look into your self and to look into your soul, to see and expose every part of your soul. it is essentially a meditation of very intense self-reflection. at some point during your meditation/introspection an animal may appear to you, or you may think about certain animals. a particular animal may stand out. that is an animal guide. it could be a spirit guide, a guide that stays with you for life and teaches you about your self. or it could be another kind of guide. Shadow Guides are somewhat similar to Shadows in the MBTI. they represent opposites, your weaknesses, parts of your self that are hidden to you. Shadow Guides are usually thought of as less comforting, more unsettling.
 

Kingfisher

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Amargith, or Kingfisher, this may be expanding beyond the point of this thread but perhaps you could talk a little bit about other types of spirits/guides as well?

sure. there are lots of different kind of guides. some of the main and important guides that i was taught about are the spirit guide, the shadow guide, the medicine guide (or just medicine), and the messenger guide. here is a kind of basic idea of them:


spirit guides are essentially the "life partner" of animal guides. you establish a relationship with them over your life which changes and grows. it is really more of a friendship than anything else. the othr night i watched 'The Golden Compass' with Maya and her niece. the daemons in that movie are similar in a lot of ways to spirit guides. i haven't read the book, though.


medicine guides are animal guides who teach you less about your self and more about certain wisdom. they are not as closely tied to you as an individual as spirit guides are. 'medicine' is a native american idea that certain knowledge, wisdom, and attributes are tied to animals, locations, nature, people.
a classic example of animal "medicine" is the coyote, the "trickster". coyote's medicine is mischeif and chaos. the coyote as a medicine guide is eccentric, unpredictable, sometimes reckless, carefree. coyote medicine is self-centered, always thinking about yourself. but it is also optimistic, the coyote always believes that any situation can turn out good, or to his advantage.

whereas the bear has very different medicine. while the coyote makes fast descions often with little or no forethought, the bear thinks long and hard and carefully before making any descions or taking action. bear medicine is tied to deep introspection, looking inside yourself and at your self.


shadow guides i mentioned in my last post. they represent opposites, your weaknesses, parts of your self that are hidden to you. Shadow Guides are usually thought of as less comforting, more unsettling. shadow guides are about exploring the darker side of yourself, going into essentially uncharted and dangerous territory of your self, and being confronted with the dark aspects of your soul.
haha, here is a pretty classic example of a shadow guide: in Star Wars when Yoda sends Luke into the tree and Luke confronts a 'vision' of Darth Vader, and kills him. that vision of Darth Vader is a classic Shadow Guide.


messenger guides are guides who appear suddenly with the sole purpose of bringing you a message. they stay until you understand the message, and then dissapear. they are pretty ambiguous, they are not always bringing good messages. and you do not really connect with messngers in the same way. they usually remain somewhat distant from you. but they will present you a message in essentially any way. it might be very obvious or it might be very mysterious or it might be very disturbing.


you can think of these in less spiritual terms too. when someone in your life brings you a message, good news or bad news or an opportunity, they are somewhat of a messenger guide. etc.
 

Amargith

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King, you've got this pretty much covered I see :D

From what I remember, totems are more protective spirit guides and will often also be passed on. They are often also for a group of people, such as a tribe, or a family, whereas spirit guides tend to be more individual. Power animals are pretty much archetypes you can learn from, and I think that those are mostly medicine guides as king mentionned before. The terminology gets messed up in the Pagan world as well, so don't sweat it too much.

I know some stuff from native american culture as they are most prominently used as a source for any animal/shamanic paths. I myself am a tri-trad hedge witch though, if you wanna go throwing terminology around. It's a flashy title that pretty much means I look to my ancestral roots to make my way through my spiritual life. That means I work with Celtic, Germanic and Slavic elements. Most of my knowledge relates to the Germanic/Norse Lore though, as I haven't gotten around yet to the other two, except for the basics. I work with three Goddesses, one of each tradition, and 3 totems, again, one of each tradition. Unfortunately, I also have a Shadow Totem, which..well, I'm still working out on how that fits in there.

I know about the shamanic practices of the Norse tradition, and the role of animal guides there, though it is very limited compaired to the Native American tradition. It is still very much part of it. The norse fylgia is basically your soul and presents itself as a member of the opposite sex, an animal or a geometric shape. It's part of who you are. Other animals are usually mostly found in shapeshifting practices and journeying though.

I know that there is a lot of confusion around Celtic shamanism and the jury is still out on whether or not it's a modern thing or in fact part of the old tradition as so much of the Celtic Lore has been lost. Those that do practice Celtic Shamanism do use spirit guides and animal guides, and you might wanna take a look at John Matthews(?) for that, if memory serves.

I have to admit that I'm not on the up and up of the Slavic tradition concerning this as this is still on my to-do list. But I have no doubt that they too have this element in their lore.
 

jenocyde

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Although this is incredibly interesting, do you actually believe all three traditions, or are you just paying homage to your ancestry. I mean to say, what if one tradition contradicts the other?
 

Amargith

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Although this is incredibly interesting, do you actually believe all three traditions, or are you just paying homage to your ancestry. I mean to say, what if one tradition contradicts the other?

Grin, treading lightly, I see. I appreciate it. The three traditions do have their own ways, own traditions, own practices. But they're also very much related as they were formed by cultures that were neighbours and often blood relatives. It *can* get confusing sometimes as to what to adhere to. But, all three traditions go back on almost the same basic structure. As I'm mixed blood, I honor all three. I admit, I'm somewhat eclectic in this and *feel* my way through it. This also means that for instance folkish asatruar ( traditionalists/purists of the norse tradition) would discredit me if they had the chance, as they consider any intermingling of cultures a slap in the face of the Norse gods, and I'd be branded a Fluffbunny (also known as a wannabe).

Also kinda important to know is that there are different types of pagans. You have those that focus on the religious aspects..priests, if you will. Druids in the Celtic traditions, Gythia in the Norse tradition, you name it. Those purists I'm talking about, are mostly this kind. They rule at studying the lore and keeping track of the history. Sometimes they'll look into magical practices on the side. And there are those that leave the religious crap to figure out to those people, and focus more on the folklore and 'magical' part of the tradition...witches, if you will, also known as Vala/volva in the Norse tradition, and vedma in the Slavic tradition. I'm the latter. I don't really worship the gods nor am I employed in their service. I work with them to carve out my own path. That also means I'm more interested in the ancient practices in those three traditions such as rune knowledge, leechcraft (healing and herbology basically), shamanic trance, otherwordly/folkloric creatures, etc.


*Feels really naked now* Never thought this would ever come up on this forum, and I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop but so far I'm kinda enjoying it...
 

Amargith

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what is shapeshifting about? I've heard the term...

Shapeshifting is taking the energy of an animal, a rock, a plant, a tree (but usually an animal), and making it your own. It involves visualization, and a lot of practice. Often it's also done during journeying. It means you transform yourself into an animal which has attributes that you find useful at this particular time. It's one step further than working with guides, basically.
 

Scott N Denver

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I remember when I was doing shamanic journeying I'd have people and symbols and imagery and some of it would be Native American, and some of it would be celtic. Man, those celtic women that I saw, let's just say that I would potentially be willing to make babies with them...:wubbie: Note to self, find attractive spiritual, perhaps celtic, woman in real life and make babies with her, someday, down the road, not anytime soon... :blush:

Does that [these spiritual presumably-celtic woman are hot] mean anything in particular? In something like journeying its not really clear how much to me is actual and how much is symbolic. I would imagine that as you get better things become more actual and less symbolic.

And on the subject of finding someone to make babies with, do most people who practice nature/pagan religions find partners that do so as well, and if not how open are people usually to someone who practices something else, for example me and practicing eastern things?
 

jenocyde

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Amar - Thanks for being so candid! I would love to ask you more questions about this, if you don't mind. Score 1000 points for you today for giving me so much to ponder! You don't have to answer any of it, if you don't feel it necessary or if they are too personal...

Are you afraid to work with the gods if you don't actively worship them? Aren't you afraid that they may lead you down the wrong path due to insolence?

Do you believe in the existence of all these unique gods, or do you feel that they are the same across all traditions, just using different names? I find this to be the way in voodoo vs. santeria vs candomble.

I am endlessly fascinated with religious texts and I consume them, but from an outside perspective. Since you are a believer, do you feel that at some point you would (or should) become more of a servant to the gods? As a priestess or something else like that? I mean, do you feel ok to wade in the water without immersing?

I have many more but I will leave it at that for now... :smile:
 

Scott N Denver

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Shapeshifting is taking the energy of an animal, a rock, a plant, a tree (but usually an animal), and making it your own. It involves visualization, and a lot of practice. Often it's also done during journeying. It means you transform yourself into an animal which has attributes that you find useful at this particular time. It's one step further than working with guides, basically.

Hmmm, interesting. I know how to absorb chi from things [plants, trees, bushes, rocks, mntns, etc], and it can be interesting feeling how chi or chi fields are different form place to place. Pine trees in particular are noted for the good quality of the chi that they give off.
 

Amargith

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I remember when I was doing shamanic journeying I'd have people and symbols and imagery and some of it would be Native American, and some of it would be celtic. Man, those celtic women that I saw, let's just say that I would potentially be willing to make babies with them...:wubbie: Note to self, find attractive spiritual, perhaps celtic, woman in real life and make babies with her, someday, down the road, not anytime soon... :blush:

Does that [these spiritual presumably-celtic woman are hot] mean anything in particular? In something like journeying its not really clear how much to me is actual and how much is symbolic. I would imagine that as you get better things become more actual and less symbolic.

And on the subject of finding someone to make babies with, do most people who practice nature/pagan religions find partners that do so as well, and if not how open are people usually to someone who practices something else, for example me and practicing eastern things?

Journeying is extremely personal, so it is up to you to find the links, sorry to say. It's not so much that thigns become more accurate, but you do become better at building up your 'journey dictionary' aka, you learn to interpret your journeys better, from what I've heard. Don't have that much journey-experience myself.

There's a vast Pagan community out there yes, but even in there squabbles and differences arise as no Path is the same. I know Christianity is already very much personal and different, but paganism is ten times worse. I personally have a partner who very much doesn't want to go near this stuff, though he doesn't consider it complete bull either. He just leaves that part up to me :D
 

Athenian200

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anyway, i am interested to hear what other people have to say about animal and spirit guides. jump in if this is something you know much about, or have an interest in.

I'd never gotten into this before you mentioned it... but after you mentioned it, I got overwhelmed with an image immediately.

There were 12 animals.

A cat, panther, parrot, snake, jaguar, and squirrel were on my side... it was almost like they were standing by to defend me.

On the opposite side of us, I saw a dog, pelican, dove, peregrin falcon, pig, and rat that looked like they wanted to attack us... and they seemed to be defending a shadowy figure with glowing red eyes that was obscured in darkness, pointing a spear that was pitch black (like itself) at me and laughing.

Does this mean anything to you?
 

Scott N Denver

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I know this question was NOT addressed to me, but I would like to add my two cents... :cheese: Feel free, as always, to ignore anything that I write and know that anybody else could write want they want, which may or may not have anything to do with that I say

Not all groups/traditions work with gods/deities. I practice several things, but none of them involve dealing with deities in any way shape or form. Though there are subsets, for example of taoism, that do "deal" with deities, usually in some sort of visualization manner. Further, from my understanding, when this is done it is about qualities of that deity, and identifying/developing those qualities more strongly within yourself. Tibetan Buddhism has quite a bit of this, [white tara, green tara, avalokitesvara, mahakala, various bodhisattvas, etc] and even there its about seeing this deity as an archetype and then identifying with that archetype and developing the qualities of that archetype within yourself. It's not like we "placate" these deities or whatever. I'm not even sure these deities are supposed to have an independent existence, but from my understanding are representations of qualities or attributes that one wishes to further develop. With that said, I'm under the impression that the various Hindu deities are considered to independently exist. Reexpressed, you can become avalokitesvara, you don't become Rama, though you can attain the same mind ground/level of consciousness as Rama, Shiva, etc. I know that a lot of the hindu deities and practitioners are considered to still exist, but on the subtle levels/planes, not physically. The idea is that they can "work more effectively" while not "burdened with a physical body."

Alright, enough of my two cents. [Other people seem to follow these threads but not enter into them, so I wanted to address this topic in a more general way for them.]
 

Amargith

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Amar - Thanks for being so candid! I would love to ask you more questions about this, if you don't mind. Score 1000 points for you today for giving me so much to ponder! You don't have to answer any of it, if you don't feel it necessary or if they are too personal...

Are you afraid to work with the gods if you don't actively worship them? Aren't you afraid that they may lead you down the wrong path due to insolence?

Do you believe in the existence of all these unique gods, or do you feel that they are the same across all traditions, just using different names? I find this to be the way in voodoo vs. santeria vs candomble.

I am endlessly fascinated with religious texts and I consume them, but from an outside perspective. Since you are a believer, do you feel that at some point you would (or should) become more of a servant to the gods? As a priestess or something else like that? I mean, do you feel ok to wade in the water without immersing?

I have many more but I will leave it at that for now... :smile:

No, I don't mind, as long as people don't get annoyed at this topic. I know it makes many people uneasy :)

I worried for a while..and still sometimes do about insolence. I tried the worshipping-thing, like a good little pagan. But it *just* isn't me. And although I did go out looking for deities as part of my Wiccan phase (you need a god and a goddess), I never found a God that answered my call, but I did have three goddesses knocking at my door. So I figure that they know what kind of person I am and how I do things and if they don't like it, they'll let me know. They do throw hard life lessons on my path, but I'm fairly certain that being led down the wrong path would be rather hard with those three watching me :D

Goddesses to me are often rolemodels to me, people I look up to, and I get inspiration from, so in a way that's worship in its own, I guess?

Wicca teaches that all gods and goddesses are aspects of the Goddess and God. Personally..I find that one goddess definitely aint the other, though some have crossed borders and cultures (Mother Earth, anyone), and have gotten their own 'couleur locale' that way in each culture. But Freyja is in no way comparable to Aphrodite, whereas Nerthus, Gaia and Mati Syra Zemlya do bear a lot of resemblance, imo. I used to break my head over this (I spent a lot of time with the purists/historians who love to figure out this stuff), but I've gotten to the realisation it doesn't matter. The way a Goddess shows herself to me, is going to be very different from how someone else experiences her, as with any relationship. To me, only my own path matters. The rest, I leave to the Gythia/scholars :)

I've tried Priesthood..it just isnt' for me. I don't do dogma. And that's fine. It's not only priests are useful to them. I work with them and they teach me and inspire me. I want to learn those things under their guidance that they are known for, that is their specialty. For instance, Freyja is the Goddess of Love and Lust, of shamanic Witchcraft, even of Death. So much knowledge is to be gained from her. But it's more than that. To me, she's the perfect woman. When reading stories and mythology about her, I feel inspired to follow in her footsteps despite differences in society, cultural stuff etc etc. The lessons in those stories are still valuable today.
 

Scott N Denver

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About the practitioners and what their partners do or don't believe/practice. There are soem very big and real eastern/western differences. Coming out of chi gung and some other practices, I do have direct experience with the types of things that I've heard pagans and others talk about doing. A part of me is concerned with things like "Will she always want to bless my food and cast spells at things? Seriously, I'm from a background that says to accept things as they are without generally trying to consciously change them. And how come every time I ask a question she's like 'why don't you talk with your spirit guides about it?" Meanwhile she's thinking "you eastern-oriented people are wold and body-denying and harsh and whats all this babling about a lack of self. I follow the wiccan rede, why do I need to be blabbed out about yamas and niyamas and higher morality, I don't want to be a saint! And he keeps not listening to me when I tell him that he should really go talk with his spirit guides! and why doesn't he like crystals and psychic healing as much as I do?" Do you get the idea? And less anyone think I'm making this up or exaggerating, I've had some of these kind of issues with my more new-agey friends. Amargith, have you had any of those kind of issues, or others, that your willing to share with us?
 

jenocyde

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Thank you Scott and Amar for opening up about something so personal.

You have both answered my questions, for the most part. I lived in Cuba for a while and the slave tradition of hiding their gods in the catholic saint system still holds true today. So many practicing catholics worship the virgin mary by day and erzulie by night, and to them, she is one and the same. But the point I guess you are trying to make is that all energy exists all over the world and will appear to you in the form where you feel most comfortable and open to receive them. This makes sense.

I, of course, have other questions, but I'll take some time to give a little bit of breathing room to you both first. Thanks again.
 

Amargith

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About the practitioners and what their partners do or don't believe/practice. There are soem very big and real eastern/western differences. Coming out of chi gung and some other practices, I do have direct experience with the types of things that I've heard pagans and others talk about doing. A part of me is concerned with things like "Will she always want to bless my food and cast spells at things? Seriously, I'm from a background that says to accept things as they are without generally trying to consciously change them. And how come every time I ask a question she's like 'why don't you talk with your spirit guides about it?" Meanwhile she's thinking "you eastern-oriented people are wold and body-denying and harsh and whats all this babling about a lack of self. I follow the wiccan rede, why do I need to be blabbed out about yamas and niyamas and higher morality, I don't want to be a saint! And he keeps not listening to me when I tell him that he should really go talk with his spirit guides! and why doesn't he like crystals and psychic healing as much as I do?" Do you get the idea? And less anyone think I'm making this up or exaggerating, I've had some of these kind of issues with my more new-agey friends. Amargith, have you had any of those kind of issues, or others, that your willing to share with us?


I have found in my many years as a Pagan that pagans are just people like anyone else , and can sometimes be somewhat judgemental and not so understanding towards others. Ironic, as paganism first and foremost teaches that everyone's path is unique and should be respected as such. People will be people, I guess. On the other hand, paganism does provide at least a greater chance at finding someone who is openminded enough to respect your practices as long as you respect hers. After my experiences, I've gone at it alone. I've found a fellow ENFP witch that I do share stories with now and again, but her path and mine are so different, and it doesn't feel right mixing them. Then again, there are those that find strength in covens and organizations and like to unify stuff. Not me. To me this is so personal, that I go at it alone. I think I would do this even, if my partner was pagan, though I would very much enjoy him to share my path as well. To be that in sync would be..utter bliss. But if he were to walk a different path, which is very likely, I would wish him all the best and give him the space he needed and demand mine.

As for blessing food constantly, that's something that becomes so routine, you won't even notice it, especially as it doesn't even have to be noticable that she does that. Also, constantly casting spells is somethign you learn really quickly not to do, trust me ;)

Thank you Scott and Amar for opening up about something so personal.

You have both answered my questions, for the most part. I lived in Cuba for a while and the slave tradition of hiding their gods in the catholic saint system still holds true today. So many practicing catholics worship the virgin mary by day and erzulie by night, and to them, she is one and the same. But the point I guess you are trying to make is that all energy exists all over the world and will appear to you in the form where you feel most comfortable and open to receive them. This makes sense.

I, of course, have other questions, but I'll take some time to give a little bit of breathing room to you both first. Thanks again.

The Slavic and Celtic tradition do this as well, for a large part. And yes, it very much is an instinctual thing. As stated before, each path is unique and imo, you should never let anyone tell you that what you feel in your gut is right, is in fact not correct. I've wasted a lot of time struggling with this and to no avail. Being a serious student of spirituality doesn't require you to follow their rules. It just requires you to be honest with yourself. Self-reflection will teach you more than others ever can.

Thanks Jeno, for going about this so gently. I do enjoy talking about this part of my life, but it's such a personal thing that it feels a bit unnerving at times to do so. Don't let that stop you from asking questions though. I honestly don't mind :)
 

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Oh, I just remembered...
So I was at a spiritual healing about a month ago, and I think the lady was working on my crown center at that point [its always interesting cuz I can usually feel where they are working at, some of them have commented on that too. One lady asked if I could "see" it [note: seeing is generally much harder to do than general feeling], and I said "kinda" or "somewhat" or something, and then she gave me this look like 'quit being modest and just say yes!"]. Anyways, I saw some semi-detailed images of a couple of Tibetan Buddhist deities. Note: as noted in my two cents contribution above, I "understand"/relate to TB deities in a symbolic way. I thought that was pretty cool, "yay for my developed crown center or something!" but I was also slightly miffed that they were Tibetan Buddhist deities. I don't practice TB [zen and TB have been described as opposites, I do practice zen/chan], and I feel affinity with several other cultures but not tibetan culture per se. Maybe I just don't know enough about deities from other cultures that I could have taken meaningful images from them??? I do keep wanting to have an impression of a 1000 headed on-fire mahakala though! If you look at my books, or at my posters at home, those posters are like various tibetan buddhist deities or yantras [ooh! there's fire-headed mahakala right behind me!], and my books that includes segments on deities are almost all TB ones.

Long story short, I was at this spiritual healing and during it saw images of TB deities. It was pretty cool!
 
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