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If you don't believe in things of a "psychic" nature

Wiley45

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If you don't believe in psychics, "soul connections," etc, what would you do if someone you knew and trusted reported strange experiences that most people would call "psychic?" For instance, let's say you have a trusted, honest, respectable friend who is intelligent and doesn't call attention to himself, and he reports these types of experiences:

-He met someone for the first time, and when they shook hands and made eye contact, your friend claimed to instantly perceive all sorts of personal details about this person's life. He mentioned some of them to you in confidence, and later found out they were true.

-He had a feeling that something was coming in the mail on a specific day, after a long period of waiting and unknown delivery date, and mentioned it to you. The item did arrive that day.

-Out of the blue, he was overwhelmed one night with sadness and negative feelings about an estranged family member. They hadn't spoken in 3 years, and he had no idea where the person was, nor had he thought about the person in a long time. He mentioned this experience to you. A week later, he checked his myspace account and discovered that the estranged family member was sending him a message at the exact time and date he'd had those overwhelming thoughts and feelings.

-He woke up in the middle of the night freaking out that he had to speak with his mother on the phone (his girlfriend can vouch for this fact) and later found out the mother was unexpectedly dying at the same time he was awake and disturbed that night.

If your trusted, respected friend consistently reported these types of experiences, would you still be skeptical, or would you chalk them up to something you can't explain? I'm curious what you'd think.
 

run

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What is this "things of a psychic nature" you speak of? If you can't define it, you can't not believe in it.
 

Wiley45

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By psychic, I mean predicting the future, knowing things about people before they've been told to you, or feeling some sort of spiritual connection to someone else in the sense that you feel what they feel or are aware of their thoughts/feelings without being told or even seeing them at the time. Knowing things that should be impossible to know. (Not just being good at perceiving other people's emotions or knowing someone well enough to predict what they'll do/say.)

Is that clear enough?
 

run

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ok - why don't you believe in it?

edit: i'm just wondering because the argument can't be faulty.
 

Wiley45

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Well, if we're discussing my personal thoughts on the matter, though I'm not closed to any idea, I'm skeptical of people who claim to be "psychic" because I think their claims can usually be proven false. Some people purposely deceive others, and some people even unknowingly delude themselves into thinking they have special abilities and psychic powers. I don't think I've seen enough evidence to convince me that certain people are psychic, though some things occasionally make me wonder. Also, I'm often curious if there are some things we call "psychic" that really have some other sort of explanation.

edit: I'm more interested in hearing what people would think than trying to prove my point, because I'm bad at proving my points, and half the time I have no point. :) Just questions, really. Curiosity about people's thoughts and ideas. (Go easy on me, INTP... :))
 

Alwar

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There are explanations for these phenomena. I wouldn't necessarily doubt the persons sincerity, but I would supernatural explanation. Here is a good video related to the topic.

[YOUTUBE="nCVzz96zKA0"]Out of Body Experiment[/YOUTUBE]

Nobody who has claimed psychic ability has ever been able to prove it or show consistent results beyond the realm of chance. Most have been exposed for using cold reading, and not necessarily conscious of it.

Highly intuitive people, almost always women, can often tell much about a person by the way they carry themselves or even look. Sometimes it's very striking in accuracy and confusing when I observe them doing it. You could see how people might mistake that with supernatural ability. Because of this intuition they can get a good idea of situations that may play out in that persons life. I wouldn't call it psychic, it seems more to do with their capacity to understand social nuance, and the application of probability thereof.
 

Feops

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If your trusted, respected friend consistently reported these types of experiences, would you still be skeptical, or would you chalk them up to something you can't explain? I'm curious what you'd think.

I'd be skeptical.. because I'm skeptical by nature.

People have a habit of noting exceptions. It's just hardwired into our brains to process routine without much thought while anything abnormal triggers additional thought. If my doorknob turns I don't give it any thought. If it fails to turn I now have an event and may consider myself unlucky. Patterns too, are easy to pick out if one searches a little. Things like karma, or death comes in (threes?) are really easy to "prove" with a little selective fact finding.

I've a workmate who is convinced beyond anything that he is a financial genius and can read market trends better than most. It is interesting to follow his logic train as he admires his correct predictions, ignores his wrong ones, and often directly contradicts himself while attempting to make a point, all without missing a beat.
 

BerberElla

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My isfj friend is pretty much like the friend you are describing, the way she just knows things is spooky.

If I lose something she can tell me where it is, if I stay up late she can usually tell me what time I went to bed when I say to her on the phone "You'll never guess what time I went to bed" and she says a number flashes up at her and it's very nearly always right.

She makes predictions about people that also very nearly always turn out to be true.

I am always gobsmacked by how much she knows without knowing, also knowing in her heart that a close friend of hers was in trouble, so she called only to find out he had died.

I'm still a skeptic though, but like you I wonder alot if there is more to it than I give her credit for.

Plus you can sort of rationalise most of the times it happens, apart from knowing something was wrong with her friend, which I'm still trying to find an explanation for.
 

Amargith

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He's a strongly developped empath and relies heavily on his intuition/gut reaction. A lot of pagans have these experiences too, you can train them as they are abilities within us. I'm personally not as accurate with the whole gut inspired stuff (too much self-doubting), but I do well with the other thing. Takes a lot of effort though and belief in yourself as no one really knows how it works exactly.

It's somethign that's completely natural, and trainable. We just don't know how it works, much like profetic dreams for instance. There's a ton of hyptheses as to why it could possibly work (bodylanguage, the hit and miss thing, calculating probability chances, memories etc etc). All these explanations could contribute. It's still a pretty awesome skill, though, no matter what the explanation is. Sounds like this person has a serious talent for it. Hope he can handle it, coz it's pretty taxing to live with. Also, as it is a skill, he's bound to get some stuff wrong, depending on how 'skilled' he actually is.

Note: I do admit that there are a lot of wanna-be's and con men out there when it comes to these things as well.
 

simulatedworld

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If you don't believe in psychics, "soul connections," etc, what would you do if someone you knew and trusted reported strange experiences that most people would call "psychic?" For instance, let's say you have a trusted, honest, respectable friend who is intelligent and doesn't call attention to himself, and he reports these types of experiences:

-He met someone for the first time, and when they shook hands and made eye contact, your friend claimed to instantly perceive all sorts of personal details about this person's life. He mentioned some of them to you in confidence, and later found out they were true.

Yeah, that's called people reading. Professional "psychics" do it all the time; they're trained to pick up on various cues in the way people present themselves upon first meeting someone. Typology can teach you a lot about this; sounds like the kid is at least somewhat intuitive.

-He had a feeling that something was coming in the mail on a specific day, after a long period of waiting and unknown delivery date, and mentioned it to you. The item did arrive that day.

Either lucky or lying.

-Out of the blue, he was overwhelmed one night with sadness and negative feelings about an estranged family member. They hadn't spoken in 3 years, and he had no idea where the person was, nor had he thought about the person in a long time. He mentioned this experience to you. A week later, he checked his myspace account and discovered that the estranged family member was sending him a message at the exact time and date he'd had those overwhelming thoughts and feelings.

Really, he wrote down the date and time? I'm not sure I'd believe this one to this degree of specificity. But it seems apparent that this guy is likely INFJ.

-He woke up in the middle of the night freaking out that he had to speak with his mother on the phone (his girlfriend can vouch for this fact) and later found out the mother was unexpectedly dying at the same time he was awake and disturbed that night.

Anything other than anecdotal evidence that he told you was true?

If your trusted, respected friend consistently reported these types of experiences, would you still be skeptical, or would you chalk them up to something you can't explain? I'm curious what you'd think.

I'd assume he's probably exaggerating the accuracy with which the dates and times were pinpointed. I'd also wonder how often he makes these kinds of predictions--if you make enough generalized predictions, some of them are bound to come true.

Sometimes INFJs are so proud of their "seer" quality (strong Ni) that they get a little wrapped up in their own hype and start to think they truly can predict the future.

The INFJ may not even consciously understand how it knows these things, but there are lots of subliminal cues and things that can add up into an intuitive "vision"--we'd need more specific details to apply this much to your friend in particular, but there's probably a reasonable explanation.
 

Fluffywolf

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I once had a dream about killing a bunny in a hit and car accident depite my best attempts to avoid the poor soul.

That same day when I drove to work, I killed a bunny with my car despite my best attempts to avoid the poor soul.

That is how I experience it however. But as I started to delve into this matter, and started to try and understand my dreams better after this incident. I came to realize I didn't kill a bunny in my dream at all. I merely had a dream that sparked off a similar emotion in most likely an abstract manner, and when I hit the bunny in real life I got reminded to that dream as if it had happened the way I just experienced it. The truth is, I don't know what the dream was really about.

I think..

Another fun thing, I've had numorous occasions where I felt the urge, for no reason at all, to open msn and check to see if someone is online. And as I open my msn window, that person just so happens to come online right at that time, and pops up right under my mouse, so all I need to do is double click. Happened at least 4 or 5 times. I think I'm just lucky. :p

Next to that, I have distinct deja vu experiences every so often, once per two weeks on average if I had to guess. Seeing events I have a distinct familiarity with. As if it has happened before. But when I try to remember when it has happened before I draw a complete blank as if I don't have a sense of time in that memory.

Either way, it's not special to me in any way. It does not seem useful in any way, so I really don't see a reason to care. Maybe there is a sort of connection on a physicality we don't understand. Sort of mind links that go through space time itself, or whatever. A relative link between people we know or events that have or have yet to occur.

But quite frankly. Until I am capable of influencing that, I have no reason to be bothered by it.

I also believe that if this is to be true, it is most certainly quantifiable and not some mumbo jumbo.
 

Fluffywolf

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Another fun story.

My father has a love for the forests around here and is and always have been a dedicated wandered around the forests, and as a hobby searching for deer antlers. One time, About 20 years ago he and a friend who was a nature photographer and painter met a psychic person. My father did not believe him but in jest gave him an antler. He had not found the other antler of the deer and was curious to know where the other antler was to be found. The psychic held the antler and started talking about what he saw. He saw a great fire and a particularly large oak tree.

They shrugged it off and were like, yeah right. My father's friend found the other antler a few days later and told my father where he had found it. It was in a patch of forest with a lot of pine trees and one oak tree. About 20 yards from the oak tree.

My father was also with the fire department before that time, and five years before, there had been a forest fire where his friend said to have found the antler.

Whatever it is, I don't know. Maybe mere chance, maybe more to it. But if there's more to it, it doesn't mean it isn't quantifiable.

My father believes his friend was just pulling his leg, as the artist he was, for the sake of trying to open his mind. Who knows, maybe it was just a con like that! We'll never know. :p
 

Kangirl

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I wouldnt necessarily doubt the person' sincerity, but I would ascribe any supernatural powers to them, either.
 

Stanton Moore

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My mother and both sisters have both had many of the kind of experience, either while conscious or dreaming, that is referred to in the OP. I was raised by an athiest, and adopted his world view, but I can't help but feel that there are many things about our nature that is not yet explainable by science. I can't throw away the possibility of some unseen connection between beings.
I have had a few of those things happen to me in the last few years. I attribute it to a very strong intuition, and an acquired ability to suspend judgment.
 

run

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They say deja vu is entirely produced by the person experiencing it. Its not real.
 

Wiley45

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There are explanations for these phenomena. I wouldn't necessarily doubt the persons sincerity, but I would supernatural explanation. Here is a good video related to the topic.

Very interesting stuff. I listened to a science podcast a little while ago that talked about an experiment with pilots passing out while flying, and some who were passed out the longest reported seeing the famed "light at the end of the tunnel" or having out of body type experiences. It's fascinating that science is finding explanations for some of these things.

He's a strongly developped empath and relies heavily on his intuition/gut reaction. A lot of pagans have these experiences too, you can train them as they are abilities within us ... Note: I do admit that there are a lot of wanna-be's and con men out there when it comes to these things as well.

I appreciate your perspective on this topic, as well as your realization that a lot of this stuff can be false. (Not all the pagans I know are so realistic.) I always find the pagan perspective really fascinating, and it's interesting to think this ability is something that could be trained.

Really, he wrote down the date and time? I'm not sure I'd believe this one to this degree of specificity. But it seems apparent that this guy is likely INFJ...

I'd assume he's probably exaggerating the accuracy with which the dates and times were pinpointed. I'd also wonder how often he makes these kinds of predictions--if you make enough generalized predictions, some of them are bound to come true.

He didn't note the time, but wrote about those sad feelings in a personal journal the evening they occurred. Didn't think anything unusual of it until the myspace message arrived. He knew the time because the feelings happened during a specific event, so he was able to recall the time when thinking back.

This person doesn't tend to consciously make "predictions," as far as I can tell. It seems more like things happen and then there's a "Wow, that's weird," attitude when looking back upon events and their supposed foreshadowing. (It's not an INFJ, but the details about Ni are fascinating to me.)

They say deja vu is entirely produced by the person experiencing it. Its not real.

Quite respectfully, I'm wondering who you mean by "they," and if you have a link or any sort of further details. What you're saying sounds interesting, but I don't have enough information to even form an opinion on the subject or look into it further.
 

phthalocyanine

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i don't think anything described in OP is beyond what humans are normally capable of..
society just doesn't give much credence to that stuff...so most people don't identify with or become too consciously aware of those things ( maybe that's what i want to think because i have similar tendencies to your friend)..hm. still skeptical. like many have said, highly developed intuition helps.
 

run

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Quite respectfully, I'm wondering who you mean by "they," and if you have a link or any sort of further details. What you're saying sounds interesting, but I don't have enough information to even form an opinion on the subject or look into it further.

:) that was an INTP post. I saw it on tv (that sounds bad, i know). The Wikipedia agrees.
 

Wiley45

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Seriously? Wikipedia and a vague reference to TV?

When I said go easy on me, I didn't mean that easy. :D

And yes, it was definitely an INTP post! (Except the INTP's I know would probably just say, "Insufficient information. FAIL.")

Acquiring detailed information is one of the many helpful skills I've learned from my friendly neighborhood INTP.
 
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