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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alwar View Post
    There are explanations for these phenomena. I wouldn't necessarily doubt the persons sincerity, but I would supernatural explanation. Here is a good video related to the topic.

    [YOUTUBE="nCVzz96zKA0"]Out of Body Experiment[/YOUTUBE]

    Nobody who has claimed psychic ability has ever been able to prove it or show consistent results beyond the realm of chance. Most have been exposed for using cold reading, and not necessarily conscious of it.

    Highly intuitive people, almost always women, can often tell much about a person by the way they carry themselves or even look. Sometimes it's very striking in accuracy and confusing when I observe them doing it. You could see how people might mistake that with supernatural ability. Because of this intuition they can get a good idea of situations that may play out in that persons life. I wouldn't call it psychic, it seems more to do with their capacity to understand social nuance, and the application of probability thereof.
    Very interesting. But what causes our brains to glitch so that for a split second we see a ghost (delusion). What would cause more than one brain to glitch at the same time, causing a sighting by more than one person? I'm much more skeptical about stories from people who've had experiences at bed-time but what's going on in the head when someone is up and about, experiencing something 'paranormal' out of the blue?

  2. #22
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewelchild View Post
    I appreciate your perspective on this topic, as well as your realization that a lot of this stuff can be false. (Not all the pagans I know are so realistic.) I always find the pagan perspective really fascinating, and it's interesting to think this ability is something that could be trained.
    Well, I tend to be acutely aware of the BS that sometimes goes on with wanna-bes. They don't mean anything by it, but it's just basically herd-mentality at work. 'He can do that, so I have to say I can to to be included', or wishful thinking tends to help as well. As for the con men...well, those are the reason I learn these things and try them out myself. In fact, that's how I got started with tarot. Didnt' believe in it but was fascinated by it..so I tried it out myself as then I was at least sure someone wasn't trying to con me.
    Still, wishful thinking is a bitch, and I'll gladly verify something several times before I allow myself to believe it.

    On the other hand, many pagans come to the pagan path becoz of these kinds of occurances, seeking for (potentially faulty) explanations and a way to control it before it drives us completely nuts. We may not understand why we experience those things, but it is possible to train them, though harder than a usual skill as the dynamics aren't clear. For instance, by focussing more and being more aware of what is going on when it happens, writing things down, analyzing, you can get quite good at identifying that gut-feeling that is so desperately trying to get our attention. Daily life tends to override it though. If you do make it a point to notice it, you can anticipate things, notice nuances. Otherwise, all those things just pass you by. It's quite exhausting though to do this.

    As for me, one of the reasons I came to paganism was my oversensitivity to emotions, my own and others. Empathy, as it is known in the Pagan world. Especially now that I've found MBTI, I don't consider it a supernatural ability, but it is something of a skill that needs serious training, especially coz it's such a bitch to deal with if you have no experience with it. It literally ripped me apart when I was younger, and Paganism was a way to learn how to deal with it somewhat and how it works. MBTI gave me the structure I was lacking still though (yes I am aware it's just a tool, but still handy). And I'm still working on it.

    I do have intuition-flashes as well, recurring dreams, deja-vus, premonitions, but I shut that part of myself down years ago coz it was so draining (and I wasn't even that grand at it). Empathy I was never able to shut down and part of me also didn't want to. It was however a nuissance that I needed to deal with. I can imagine this friend of yours feeling the same way, especially if he cannot shut it down. It costs so much of your energy to experience those things.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    I'd be inclined to question how it's possible. Usually I chalk things down to chance, and noticing the hit rates compared to the miss rates, but still it can be pretty weird to try phone up a friend, only for them to phone you up first. When the hit rate becomes so high, despite having no proof, it just seems odd.

    There are stories that I've been told about from my mother, that a lady was able to tell her that my father was suffering from some sort of nose cancer, was working in a factory in the UK. Could be cold reading, could be false memories but I trust my mother to not lie to me, that she had not told anybody about being married and working in a factory. These can easily be explained away though.
    The real problem is the one regarding the nose, it turned out to be a small surgery but it still remains a mystery. You can call it coincidence if you wish but I personally think that word is over used and a lazy way of explaining strange things.

    These stories that I've been told are the reason I'm agnostic rather than hardcore athiest. The whole idea that there are many things that aren't visible to the naked eye is something I definitely believe in.

  4. #24
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    I would remain skeptical, the fact that I know this person is not a real argument.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewelchild View Post
    If you don't believe in psychics, "soul connections," etc, what would you do if someone you knew and trusted reported strange experiences that most people would call "psychic?" For instance, let's say you have a trusted, honest, respectable friend who is intelligent and doesn't call attention to himself, and he reports these types of experiences:

    -He met someone for the first time, and when they shook hands and made eye contact, your friend claimed to instantly perceive all sorts of personal details about this person's life. He mentioned some of them to you in confidence, and later found out they were true.

    -He had a feeling that something was coming in the mail on a specific day, after a long period of waiting and unknown delivery date, and mentioned it to you. The item did arrive that day.

    -Out of the blue, he was overwhelmed one night with sadness and negative feelings about an estranged family member. They hadn't spoken in 3 years, and he had no idea where the person was, nor had he thought about the person in a long time. He mentioned this experience to you. A week later, he checked his myspace account and discovered that the estranged family member was sending him a message at the exact time and date he'd had those overwhelming thoughts and feelings.

    -He woke up in the middle of the night freaking out that he had to speak with his mother on the phone (his girlfriend can vouch for this fact) and later found out the mother was unexpectedly dying at the same time he was awake and disturbed that night.

    If your trusted, respected friend consistently reported these types of experiences, would you still be skeptical, or would you chalk them up to something you can't explain? I'm curious what you'd think.
    I'd wake up.
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  6. #26
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewelchild View Post
    If you don't believe in psychics, "soul connections," etc, what would you do if someone you knew and trusted reported strange experiences that most people would call "psychic?" For instance, let's say you have a trusted, honest, respectable friend who is intelligent and doesn't call attention to himself, and he reports these types of experiences:

    -He met someone for the first time, and when they shook hands and made eye contact, your friend claimed to instantly perceive all sorts of personal details about this person's life. He mentioned some of them to you in confidence, and later found out they were true.

    -He had a feeling that something was coming in the mail on a specific day, after a long period of waiting and unknown delivery date, and mentioned it to you. The item did arrive that day.

    -Out of the blue, he was overwhelmed one night with sadness and negative feelings about an estranged family member. They hadn't spoken in 3 years, and he had no idea where the person was, nor had he thought about the person in a long time. He mentioned this experience to you. A week later, he checked his myspace account and discovered that the estranged family member was sending him a message at the exact time and date he'd had those overwhelming thoughts and feelings.

    -He woke up in the middle of the night freaking out that he had to speak with his mother on the phone (his girlfriend can vouch for this fact) and later found out the mother was unexpectedly dying at the same time he was awake and disturbed that night.

    If your trusted, respected friend consistently reported these types of experiences, [...]
    I'd type him INFX.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I would remain skeptical, the fact that I know this person is not a real argument.
    Knowing the person is relevant because it pushes you to either accept that the person in question is lying or that there is an alternative explanation (misinterpretation etc). If it's someone you trust, you are forced to look for an alternative explanation apart from "It's obviously fake/They are lying"

  8. #28
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    i'd believe them

  9. #29
    The Architect Alwar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lillyofthevalley View Post
    Very interesting. But what causes our brains to glitch so that for a split second we see a ghost (delusion). What would cause more than one brain to glitch at the same time, causing a sighting by more than one person? I'm much more skeptical about stories from people who've had experiences at bed-time but what's going on in the head when someone is up and about, experiencing something 'paranormal' out of the blue?

    Don't know, could be a lot of things, maybe it disrupts the blood flow or maybe it is some electrical factor. Group scenarios could be self-deception, cognitive dissonance, herd-mentality etc.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I'd type him INFX.
    What does the type have to do with the question? Are you saying you'd consider it a personality quirk and therefore not believe the friend or wonder if there's any validity to what he's saying?
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