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  1. #11
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  2. #12
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    Hey, you can believe whatever you want, just keep it away from fact-based empirical analysis. It doesn't lend itself well to the whole "spirit" thing.

  3. #13
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    ... What's with the sensitivity issues?...

    The one thing I can admit to noticing about science and spirituality,... Lets just say that science is responsible for the concept of the "The fountain of youth", steering farther away from spirituality due to the denial of the inevitable... Science, from a spiritual aspect can't exist!
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  4. #14
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    In fact, advancing science, especially in the middle ages, were strongly based on spiritual concepts.

    My only problem is with the definition of spirituality and the levels of belief that go with it.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  5. #15
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son of the Damned View Post
    Hey, you can believe whatever you want, just keep it away from fact-based empirical analysis. It doesn't lend itself well to the whole "spirit" thing.
    The answer to this is in the other thread.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  6. #16
    Kickin' Ass since 1984 GargoylesLegacy's Avatar
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    Cool

    *reads the topic*
    Weird, why do I suddenly feel like this is the X-Files?

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJ123 View Post
    Here's a message from Peter Gariov the father of wave genetics. I've read of his work before and found it very interesting

    What are your thoughts?
    IMHO this truly IS interesting. And as much as it might *frightens us NTs*, and as much as I try to keep my feelings under control just like all of *us*, I personally do think feelings are important. They can do a lot of stuff to you AND others. Good AND bad things. But that's just me.

    I must say, I like the way you think.

    As for the rest, Amargith is right I believe. Maybe some day science will be able to explain everything. Personally I have nothing against it. I am not pro, nor contra. Sure would be interesting to see what they come up with.
    Rule #1: Driver picks the music. Shotgun shuts his cakehole.

    Again, Demons I get, but people are just crazy.

    ESTP? o.O

  7. #17
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    Lets just say that science is responsible for the concept of the "The fountain of youth", steering farther away from spirituality due to the denial of the inevitable.
    Actually, the CONCEPT came from fairy tale and myth. Don't blame Science for that one.

  8. #18
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Actually, the CONCEPT came from fairy tale and myth. Don't blame Science for that one.
    Well then, I can see where you got your information from!
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  9. #19
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    The fountain of youth was a old Indo-European myth, with many civilizations having at least one version of it. However, doesn't mean that some Scientist isn't going to TRY to figure it out. They do like making the impossible, possible.

  10. #20
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Fluffy, from a spiritualists point of view, I'd say that science might one day have the tools to explain everything. But it's a child, that learned how to crawl and is now taking its first steps. Spiritualism is the belief there's more to life than what meets the eye, than what we know, and to not limit yourself to what you know and understand, but go beyond.

    I firmly believe that with time, science will catch up. Science to me is basically us humans trying to catch up with...well whoever/whatever made all of this in the first place.

    Perhaps the best field to have science meet spirituality is everything to do with psychology, our own brain. As there we are not only scientific observers, but also the ones that experience it all. And the more we learn about the brain, the more things like trance, hypnotism, empathy etc get explained. I also find it the one place where scientific explanation doesn't diminish the mystique or awe of it. Knowing how it works just allows you to enjoy those experiences even more as with that understanding of how things works you can now marvel at the genius that is the human brain

    I know though what you are getting at. The whole 'divine' part. The life force, the energy, God. Yeah..we're still a while away from that one.

    There is a hypothesis though...at least in pagan circles. Physics teaches us that energy can never be destroyed..it can change forms, become useless to us by doing so as the new form might not be harvestable to us, but it never really disappears. There's a belief that everything, including the soul, the divine spark, the influencing of the world through 'magic' is pretty much energy being exchanged and transmuted all the time


    Not sure what you're asking, as I already provided both concrete and more general examples but here it is again, more in detail:

    One of the things that Pagans, Spiritualists and New-agers like to work with are stones. Crystals, semi-precious gems, you name it. According to the books on the subject, stones can have an influence on you, and you can use them in different ways. For instance, amethyst is supposedly relaxing, healing, soothing, but also helps increase awareness and is therefore a very good help during spiritual exercises. Why this is, nobody knows. It's just..experiences that people have had with this type of stone, and ancient lore, basically.

    Now, when scientists are actually done rolling their eyes at this, some of them are sometimes capable of mustering an interest in (dis)proving these theories and interesting results can occur. In the case of the stones, they found that every stone emits a vibration that is unique to them. They have no clue as to how this vibration effects the human body, but this 'energy' is often what is considered useful to spiritual people. Also, often the properties of the stones are related to the colour it has, and therefore, when you look at the study of colours done by scientists, it has been noted that certain stones have a certain effect on the human mind. Pink makes you tired, green makes you feel relaxed, blue works calming and healing, red makes you angry or passionate, etc etc.

    So parts of the stone-puzzle are already solved. Other things that may have an effect are of course the placebo-effect, but also positive thinking, programming your brain to focus by using the stone as a focus, etc etc. These are all hypotheses in an attempt to explain why the stones could produce the effects they sometimes do.


    So science can learn where to look for interesting things to research and keep its mind open and be reminded of how limited they still are in what they understand as well as realize that some things that have no explanation, still work, though we don't know how. Whereas spiritualism can look to science to explain the tools they use and therefore be able to use them more efficiently when they do get explained, even in part, as you are more able to use something efficiently when you at least understand it somewhat.
    I will give you reply on both of your posts in one piece.


    To be honest I can't take your position seriously because of two reasons. First is that critical thinking is not one of your strenghts and another one is that you are know almost anything about science.
    I am pretty sure you know about what I am talking about here.

    You say that science is a child and that is true. But what is spiritualism then?

    To the very idea of spiritualism is a nonsense. Things are true or they are not true there is no room for spiritual in this. The main reason why serious scientist don't have a respect for spiritualists is because you are so sure that your are ahead of us and that it is just a matter of time before we prove all of your conviction as truths and you don't hold to natural laws already discovered.


    Spiritualists simply don't understand what they are doing wrong. In the last 50years science has gone throught large advances. What means that you don't understand the position of science and you don't know what it actually says.
    Since you don't have the knowledge needed to understand the knowledge which is needed to understand some concept that is under research at this moment.


    Another thing is that language of science is math. If there is no math we are not talking about science. If you want to have sound scientific theory you must have the amount of energy that is used in some process you are researching. You must know what are absorbtion capabilities and how much energy you need to push every single electron out of its position. You must know where each atom in structure actually is. You must also mesure the sources of energy that are not in the system you are measuring .... etc.


    If you don't have numbers/graphs you don't have anything. You simply have an interesting hipotheisis at best.


    For example take a look at at your ametist example it does not have anything scientific in it. The entire premis stand on nothing more then a " Well, things are simply made this way".


    As for the gems and energy that is simply without any foundation. Since gems(crystals) don't exist. What we see is just our impression on them .
    What means that cristals are nothing more then macro molecules with certain chemical composition. Ametist is SiO2 in composition.
    So I am asking you why normal quartz can't do the trick ? Why not something called B-quartz or trydimite ?


    Also gems can't emitt similar energies since every rock is unique. It is unuque because it has structural defect on different places and unique chemical composition which is because of impurities in the cristals that make this rock.

    Even impurities can't be identical because they depent upon chemical composition of magma from which cristal has crystalized.
    By facts that are already described and monitored by science your claim is incorrect. So if you are trully interested in understanding the world you will reject your convictions about amethists. If scientific word means to you as much you claim.

    Everything I have said can't be proven over the internet but it can be in the lab.

    Color of something can efect your mood but there is no profs that it will heal you from anything. Why would a purple color of Amethist have an a healing efect on your body? Purple is purple no matter from what it is coming from: ametist, flower, purple curtains or purple cars. If it is not the color then what is it ?
    So if you get healed that has to imply some other source instead of crystal.


    Purple only represents the characteristics of fotons that are coming into your eyes.

    If you want more this can be explained better and in more detail.




    As for the soul thing you have my opinion here

    Also I think that love is just on of the side effects of biology and the time in which we are living in. Love did not exist 600 million years ago and I don't see how it can continue to exist on the long run.
    Especially since science leads into extinction of mankind as we know it and probably same works for concepts it worships .
    Last edited by Virtual ghost; 06-24-2009 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Grammar

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