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  1. #21
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    I could, but I'm not going to. Wickedqueen is right, it is her belief and I respect that she believes what she believes.
    Up to you; I agree with her right to do that, and it's not my business to criticise you for believing differently - but please note that isn't actually why I asked.

    Honestly I have no idea why I posted in this thread, truth is I am tired of debating such a subjective topic.
    Well, agreement is never going to come on something as subjective as this, for sure. If I get involved in this sort of debate it would normally be more for the chance to learn something from meeting on common ground those who may have different beliefs than to challenge them with my own, which in the case of something as deeply personal as religious faith is probably a waste of energy
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  2. #22
    Senior Member WickedQueen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Well, agreement is never going to come on something as subjective as this, for sure. If I get involved in this sort of debate it would normally be more for the chance to learn something from meeting on common ground those who may have different beliefs than to challenge them with my own, which in the case of something as deeply personal as religious faith is probably a waste of energy
    I love to debate and am open to disagreement. But when the debate turned to be insultment for each side, I'll make my strict boundaries right away to stop the non-sense debate.

    But I enjoy to sharing knowledge about religion or god. I have an atheist and a christian friends that I enjoy to have spiritual conversations with. I found that their opinions are interesting and enlightening.


    .

  3. #23
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    From my experience, most of it seems to be just people who are looking at their own particular world -- they are not often projecting outwards and looking at a big picture that includes suffering in other parts of the world. And even when people become aware of such suffering, they don't really "get" the depth of it until they see those famine videos and suddenly they break down crying... and even then they're just responding on an emotional level and not automatically seeking to step back, see a big picture, and connect all these dots ("Well, if those people are suffering so unfairly, then why isn't God blessing them, and what does this say about me attributing my own successes to God's blessing?" etc.) This is not an instinctive approach for many people, so what seems obvious to big-picture people is not obvious to those who are not... it's just one of the differences.

    Personally, I think an awareness of the world outside one's personal culture and microcosm is part of personal spiritual growth; it gives us a context for our beliefs, otherwise we tend to assume that what we've experienced in our lives up to this point is the same world that everyone else lives in, so then we can come up with some unchecked assumptions/beliefs that are not actually universally true... or misframe our beliefs in some way.

    I think the blessing thing is just part of one's attitude that one wants to be grateful to God for what goodness he gives -- it's part of submission to the higher order of things. It might not seem intellectually viable to some people if examined on a large scale, but it was never really meant to be an intellectual conclusion... it's part of submission to higher authority.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabastious View Post
    It's almost cliche nowadays to hear someone say that they are blessed by god in some sort of way. A lot of times when a pro football player gets a touchdown he points to the sky (god).

    This has always perplexed me. As that pro football player is pointing to the sky, thanking god for giving him the strength/courage/opportunity to score that touchdown, there is probably a very smal child about to die of starvation in a different part of the world.

    The same goes for really any person who holds the opinion that their good fortune is a 'blessing' from god.

    I'm not blanketing all christians here, but I do see a lot of this. Why do us American's get so many 'blessings' whereas people in other parts of the world get to scavenge for food. What did they do that was so bad not to get part of these blessings from god? (like financial stability, sustenance and covering)

    So my question is why do some people think that fortunate situations are some sort of reward for their good deeds?

    If god exists, why would he be blessing some people who believe in him and letting others, who also believe in him, suffer and die?

    from a very subjective perspective, karma. to each unto their own
    also, to inform you of how nothing is what it seems around you and that your well-being at this moment does not guarantee your well-being the next. so dont mistake 100% commitment to worldly pleasures and the materialistic world as a source of satisfaction and contentment. the choas that ensues outside your body is best left to the outside and don't let it affect your mental and physical health. go about your ways and do your duty to the world but don't mistake this duty for the real purpose of life which is self realization(if it weren't then Hollywood would be the happiest place on earth and people wouldn't go about seeking stuff like Scientology).

    from a holistic perspective, if the have-nots weren't there, how would you appreciate what you have? man is notoriously naughty for increasing his number of wants. where does he learn to truly appreciate what he has and all the virtues he possess and learn? looking at the have-nots, the ones that have are only encouraged to do better

  5. #25
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Mysterious ways and all that. It all makes sense on a level we don't understand! A being of perfect good could inflict no real pain and evil, right? :rolli:

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabastious View Post
    It's almost cliche nowadays to hear someone say that they are blessed by god in some sort of way. A lot of times when a pro football player gets a touchdown he points to the sky (god).

    This has always perplexed me. As that pro football player is pointing to the sky, thanking god for giving him the strength/courage/opportunity to score that touchdown, there is probably a very smal child about to die of starvation in a different part of the world.

    The same goes for really any person who holds the opinion that their good fortune is a 'blessing' from god.

    I'm not blanketing all christians here, but I do see a lot of this. Why do us American's get so many 'blessings' whereas people in other parts of the world get to scavenge for food. What did they do that was so bad not to get part of these blessings from god? (like financial stability, sustenance and covering)

    So my question is why do some people think that fortunate situations are some sort of reward for their good deeds?

    If god exists, why would he be blessing some people who believe in him and letting others, who also believe in him, suffer and die?
    There is a simple reason for that. And its the same reason why God advocates Genocide, slavery, oppression, War, conquest, and ritualistic sacrifices. Its the same reason why God allows good things to happen to bad people, and he allows suffering and misery to ruin good people.

    Its because he isn't there. People invent the will of God. If someone wants to believe that God has "blessed them" then they will see his influence in their lives. Perception can shape your reality in any way you chose.

  7. #27
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Pointing out logical problems with God isn't anything new.

    These people have long since figured out how to deny logical problems.

    It's called faith.

    Ti: [insert logical fallacy involved in literal interpretation of religion here]

    Si: Well, he might be right, but even if he is it doesn't really matter as much as staying true to the values I know work for me because I've always had them and they've always worked for me in achieving my goals. Logical consistency isn't the point--predictable stability is.

    That help?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feops View Post
    Mysterious ways and all that. It all makes sense on a level we don't understand! A being of perfect good could inflict no real pain and evil, right? :rolli:
    Yup, a lot of people really hold to this answer.

    Why create a brain that is going to be frustrated when the answer to the question that is really bothering them "you arn't capable of understanding." To me I am like, sheesh, thanks for the gimp brain god. Sure would be nice if I could understand it, it would make following you a whole lot easier.

  9. #29
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    ever hear of yaldabaoth? lol

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