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  1. #11
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedQueen View Post
    I don't know she fails or not, it's not my right to decide.

    All I know is she's not the only person who gets sexually abused. There are other girls that had much worst sexually abused situation (oh yes, I know some of them) and yet they are survive and move on. She have the opportunity to move on with her life, but she chose to gave up.


    .

    Not at all, every person handles things in a different way, what would be easy to handle for one, wouldn't be easy for another.

    Not only that but her destiny was already written for her (maktoob), allah decided before she was born that she would be abused, and she would kill herself, so even had she wanted to live her life was written when she was in womb.

    Then you have the fact that allah claims he doesn't give any soul more than it can handle, and yet what the hell is suicide, aisde from people going through more than they can handle?

    I very much disagree with the quranic quotes you posted, it's all mush really, promises and assurances that are actually empty when you read the tasfir and hadiths surrounding them.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  2. #12
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    All we know is the physical life, the rest is left to speculation and imagination... If our life on earth is to be considered a gift by God, should we not be blessed with the means to live free from a constant state of "survival mode" so that we can enjoy ourselves and better the human race?

    If one wants to say that it's God's blessing for your good job, your healthy family, your nice car, your good looks and your impressive talent than it's only logical to say that it's God's withholding in situations on the opposite end of the spectrum.
    I'd say our knowledge of the existence of the soul--and therefore spiritual life--is far more immediate, and thereofe far more certain than our knowledge of the physical. And we've always the means to attain spiritual life, and therefore we're always free to make use of those means to remain alive.

  3. #13
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Maybe it's different for you, but my knowledge of the soul is very limited to non-existent. I see/feel what's around me in the physical world and I'm receptive to that.

  4. #14
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    What do you see right now?

  5. #15
    Senior Member WickedQueen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    Not at all, every person handles things in a different way, what would be easy to handle for one, wouldn't be easy for another.
    It's true, but that doesn't hide the fact that she did have many options and had chosen her own destiny.


    Not only that but her destiny was already written for her (maktoob), allah decided before she was born that she would be abused, and she would kill herself, so even had she wanted to live her life was written when she was in womb.
    I disagree that her fate was to die by suicide. Destiny/fate is more complicated than what you think. What had written for us wasn't only one way of living. We have a lot of options and also a lot of endings. The key is too keep believing that God love us and give us opportunities and options to choose our own destiny.

    "... Thus, God does not change the condition of any people unless they themselves make the decision to change..." (Quran 13:11)


    Then you have the fact that allah claims he doesn't give any soul more than it can handle, and yet what the hell is suicide, aisde from people going through more than they can handle?
    "... You shall not kill yourselves. God is Merciful towards you." (Quran 4:29)

    Why would God decided, before we were born, that we would die by suicide but in the same time He forbid us to kill ourselves?? I don't believe that He will ever make us to kill ourselves. Suicide is our decision to make.


    I very much disagree with the quranic quotes you posted, it's all mush really, promises and assurances that are actually empty when you read the tasfir and hadiths surrounding them.
    "... Certainly, God's promise is truth. Therefore, do not be distracted by this life..." (Quran 31:33)

    "And I will not worship that which you have been wont to worship, nor will you worship that which I worship. To you your way, and to me my way." (Quran 109:4-6)

    I respect your beliefs and I fully expect that you will have the same courage to respect of what I believe. Thank you.


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  6. #16
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedQueen View Post

    I respect your beliefs and I fully expect that you will have the same courage to respect of what I believe. Thank you.


    .
    You are right.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  7. #17
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    Not at all, every person handles things in a different way, what would be easy to handle for one, wouldn't be easy for another.
    I believe this may be precicely Wickedqueen's point on this issue. A test which could be passed with ease by an individual would not be a very meaningful one for them, would it?

    Not only that but her destiny was already written for her (maktoob), allah decided before she was born that she would be abused, and she would kill herself, so even had she wanted to live her life was written when she was in womb.
    This seems overly simplistic for me given the stress that Islam appears to lay on personal responsibility. My impression at any rate was that there were fundamental elements of both free will and predestination in Islamic theology (though predestination may be the stronger), which makes this seem like either an absolutist assertion of predestination which is at variance with actual teachings, or something of a strawman.


    I very much disagree with the quranic quotes you posted, it's all mush really, promises and assurances that are actually empty when you read the tasfir and hadiths surrounding them.
    Interesting, but I for one haven't read the latter, and am also not sure whether they're universally accepted by Muslims. Wickedqueen's response implies otherwise at any rate. Could you provide any evidence of how they contradict the verses she's quoted so that any of us who are neutral on this issue are in a better position to decide for ourselves?
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  8. #18
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    What do you see right now?
    Everything but God.

  9. #19
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Could you provide any evidence of how they contradict the verses she's quoted so that any of us who are neutral on this issue are in a better position to decide for ourselves?
    I could, but I'm not going to. Wickedqueen is right, it is her belief and I respect that she believes what she believes.

    Honestly I have no idea why I posted in this thread, truth is I am tired of debating such a subjective topic.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  10. #20
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    Honestly I have no idea why I posted in this thread, truth is I am tired of debating such a subjective topic.
    I agree. Religion really isn't worth talking about, honestly. You either believe in it and accept it, or you don't. There's no reasoning involved. Even religious texts themselves say it's a matter of faith.

    I can't discuss religion without feeling threatened and angry, so I'm probably going to abstain from commenting on such topics from now on. You've made a wise choice here, so I'm following your example. No need to fuel the fire and create more tension. Best that they live their way, and we live ours.

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